Transcript
Paul:
Good afternoon or good evening depending upon where in the world you are, what time of the day you’re listening to this final episode of the season, Talking the Blues. George and Andy, how are you both? Tip top. Good. Excellent. George, why are you so tip top?
George:
I can only describe this this way, that I went downstairs after I watched the match yesterday and Jules said to me, I haven’t heard that kind of shouting and noise. I said, no, it’s for a couple of years, isn’t it? She looked at me and she went, “a couple of years, it’s a decade”.
Which I was kind of flattered by because I thought.Well, I’m getting ahead of myself. I thought we played really well for about an hour yesterday and within an hour and a half for an hour, we played really well. We were well worth the win, better than them.
Absolutely thrilled to bits with the way we played football yesterday, which I think has got a great deal to do with giving the responsibility of midfield to Alcoraz, who had a wonderful game. So did Ndiaye. We looked like a football team. I was absolutely chuffed to ye bollocks. I was really, really thrilled with the way we played.
There was a patch in the first half when we let them get on top and I thought, why have we done that? They’re not very interesting. They’re not doing anything. And so it was great to watch the post-match interview with Moyes because his face looked like mine.And he was thrilled to bits with them and quite right, too. I thought they were absolutely excellent. And, you know, a good transfer window and we can look forward next year to doing some damage to people. That is why I’m so happy.
Paul:
That’s great to hear.
Andy:
Andy. I have to agree with my brother, I thought, considering, you know, that Newcastle, well, as it happened in the end, they didn’t need a result, but kickoff time, they needed a result to guarantee themselves Champions League football. So there was, they had something to play for and Everton didn’t. And Everton played for pride.
And I think more than that, actually, they played for the support, which, again, was outstanding yesterday. There were times yesterday when, when all you could hear was the Everton supporters singing. I thought the away support has always been good.
George:
Before we start, Andy.
Andy:
Yeah, the last two or three years, the away support has been beyond good. But in recent weeks, the away support has been absolutely, to quote Roberto Martinez, phenomenal. The support they’ve given the team and the club is above and beyond, it really is.
And I think the players played for supporters yesterday. I also think they played for JP to help him get a clean sheet so he could have a giggle at the Newcastle fans. And I think he thoroughly enjoyed himself yesterday. But our kids, right, the way that we played yesterday, we weren’t afraid. We weren’t sitting back.
We did sit back for little periods, but we weren’t sitting back because we were in awe of the opposition. I think we went there thinking we could get a result. And in the end, not only did we get the result, it could have been better. Pope made three really, really good saves. And then there was the one late on from DCL, which I’m sure if he had that chance again, he would have buried it. But he didn’t.
And I think 1-0 was the right result. Anything more might have been a little bit flattering. But in general, the team played really, really well. Ashley Young in his last game was what got me about Ashley Young yesterday. Because when he first came, everybody knows that I was dead against the signing of him.
But the lashings of humble pie have come tumbling my way. I thought, considering it was his last game for everything yesterday, to say that he was fully committed is an understatement. Because when Gordon went down, trying to buy a penalty, when he clearly wasn’t touched, or trying to gain, sorry, not a penalty, wasn’t in the box, he was trying to gain a free kick. And he went down and Young mouthed off at the referee quite rightly. He was saying, this is a crackpot decision you’ve given this free kick. And he carried that on because he didn’t get booked for about five or six minutes later. When obviously, the referee had had enough of him being chirped up by Ashley Young.
But it would have been very, very easy for him yesterday to not just go through the motions, but not be as committed as he was. And he was totally, totally committed to that game yesterday. And that’s the kind of attitude that we want going forward.And I’m going to say it now, he might be 39 and knocking on 40. But on the way he played yesterday, and his commitment to the cause. I can’t believe I’m going to say this, but I think I would have offered him another year. Because he’s got the attitude.
He’s got, I mean, I think you said it a couple of months ago, our kid, the one thing about him is he’s got a winning mentality. You know, from his time at Old Trafford, from his time in Italy, the guy knows how to win and what it takes to win. And that is a commodity that we have been short of for a long, long time.
George:
Very good point.
Andy:
And I think that’s a commodity that it might have been worth investing in for another 12 months. I can’t believe I’m saying it after the way I spoke about it when he first came. But he has grown on me as an Everton player and his comments about the club are equally important. It would have been very easy for him to say, you know, thanks for the last two years, guys, I’m moving on now.
But this clearly in the comments he’s made on social media, he has got a feeling for the club. And I mean, obviously, he’s, you know, it doesn’t look as though he is going to stay unless somebody has to change your heart fairly quickly before somebody else snaps him up. But like I said, just the dedication and commitment he showed in what was his last game and to all intents and purposes was a dead rubber because we were sure to finish in the 13th, win, lose or draw. So there was really nothing to play for yesterday, but personal and professional pride.
And he exuded both of those in droves yesterday. And he’s definitely gone up in my estimation.The other player, of course, who stood out yesterday, I mean, our kids mentioned Charlie Alcoraz was Ghana Gueye. Ghana Gueye at one point in the first half, I thought he’s going to run out of gas around about 55 minutes the way he’s going. He was everywhere. I mean, he was making tackles, he was breaking up play, and he was getting the blues going forward.
I mean, he belie his age yesterday as well. And there was just those little things in the game, you know, that just made you think, if we could bottle, you know, the way they played and the way they went about their business yesterday, we could bottle that and purify it a little bit, then we will become a problem for a lot of teams in the league next year. I’m not saying we’re going to be pushing, you know, for the title.
But the way we played yesterday, the spirit we played, the dedication, the commitment, all that. Yeah, Everton could be a force next year, maybe not a force to win a trophy, but a force to make others look over their shoulders at us and think hang on a minute, this lot are on the way back. They genuinely are on the way back. There was an awful lot to be pleased about yesterday, an awful lot.
George:
Paul, what was your thought?
Paul:
Wow. That was brilliant, Andy. Thank you so much for that.
Andy:
Well, it’s an absolute pleasure.
Paul:
To say I agree with every single word that you said. I’m going to make a bold statement, you know, I mean, it’s been, obviously, a really interesting year across football, generally, because clubs that you might not expect to one Sunday go one something, and it hasn’t just been like this, the same clubs, you know, that you normally would expect.
I’m going to say that Everton have been winners this year. Everything we as a football club, we as a fan base, we’ve won something back that has been missing for a long, long time. And we’ve won back our soul. And, you know, I think the fan base has always retained it.
Andy:
I’d just say that a little slower if I were you, Paul.
Paul:
We have won back our soul.
Andy:
Yeah, our souls.
Paul:
I see where you’re going there, Andy.
Andy:
Well, that is the end of the season. We’ve got to have a laugh, haven’t we? Well, yeah.
Paul:
Yeah, yeah, indeed. So much has gone on in recent years. And so there’s been such a gap between how the club thought it was appropriate to behave, how the club did behave, how the players behave, managers, owners, directors, everybody, almost everybody associated with the club, and what the fans expect.
And in recent months, certainly since David Moyes has been here, possibly just looking a little bit further back than that, for when it became obvious that the freekins were taking control of the club.
There’s been a unity and a sort of commonality of purpose between the football club and the fans. And the fans, of course, for years and years and years, have been the constant and probably throughout most of our history as a football club, in the sense that, yes, we would obviously like to win trophies.
But the reality is that throughout Everton’s history, we’ve won trophies periodically as it gets more consistent consistently. And there’s been short periods of outstanding success. And then there’s been long periods of not so much success. But the one thing that we have as a fan base, and the one understanding that we have of our club, is that we expect certain standards in terms of how we go about the business of playing football and how we play football, and our general standing in the game.
And I know that’s difficult to qualify and to quantify. But to me, and it has always been the case for me, at least, and I think for most Evertonians, that’s been a fundamental part of being an Evertonian. And the greatest of acts that we’ve been through in recent years is because we, as a fan base, have stood there and seen the club move away from those standards and from those beliefs and those qualities that make Everton the football club that it is. And it’s only in the last few months that we’ve started to see that come back.
And we’ve started to see it come back on the pitch, but we’ve also seen it off the pitch in terms of, you know, just the way we’ve gone about things. And I suppose just, you know, again, looking back to the last game at Goodison, last men’s game at Goodison, that sort of amplified the point that the soul of Everton Football Club is back.
And therefore, at the end of this season, I am in such a happier and better position with regards to Everton than I’ve been for many, many years.
Yeah. And I’m not in the least bit surprised to hear both of you eulogise over yesterday’s performance, because the performance in itself in isolation, you know, just the game and was a really good, solid, professional, competitive performance on a day that we didn’t need to be solid, competitive or professional, but we were. And that speaks volumes for, obviously, from a manager and his coaching staff. But it also speaks volumes for the players. And perhaps over time, we’ve been rather dismissive of some of the players’ efforts.
Paul:
Not always has it been the case that efforts have been there and been obvious, but maybe that’s just a reflection of how the club has been run in recent years. And, you know, the players who have played towards the end of the season sent you the players who played yesterday and been nothing but professional and nothing other than representing what I believe to be the best values of our football club.
George:
I bet yesterday’s performance was something to do with the captain, too. He exuded something yesterday. There was no way Newcastle were going to score. They could have played all day and all night, but every centre forward they’ve ever had on there, and he wasn’t going to let a goal in. And I think the players knew it. So they knew they couldn’t lose because J.P. said to them before we went out, there’s no goals going in my net today. Not not a chance, not a hope, not a prayer.
And we all went, oh, right, fine, fair enough then.So we can relax and eventually we’ll score, and they did.
And there were other, you know, a couple of other things about the game. Jake O’Brien. Oh, my God, what have we found there? I was saying to Andy on the text yesterday during the match, it’s a terrible condemnation of Dyche that he didn’t see that as the centre of himself. It’s extraordinary that he was prepared to bench that boy. He’s a bit of a star, that kid. There he was with that branch where I thought Keane played great. And, you know, he was solid as a rocket.
Admittedly, I don’t think Isaac was quite up to form it. He can only play what’s in front of him. He played him off the park. And the only other thought that I had going forward from yesterday’s matches is Ghana Gueye going to get another contract? Because whilst I understand the kind of what’s the word I’m looking for, the romantic aspect to what you’re saying about. Ashley Young, Ghana Gueye is a different thing. Yeah. And I think they would be mad not to go join another year, pal.
If they’d said that’s a decorum decorum, turn them down because of wages, I presume. I find it extraordinary, the idea that you wouldn’t offer him another year because we don’t have anything else like that. That’s all. Very few teams do.
Andy:
Well, I mean, what got me was, was the energy he was putting into the game. I mean, not saying he doesn’t put a wholehearted effort in every week, don’t get me wrong.But yesterday, I found myself thinking to certainly during the kind of the first 20 minutes, like, genuinely, I thought, if he carries on at this pace, he’s going to run out of gas. I mean, he is what he’s going to get, 33, 34.
George:
It doesn’t really matter to an athlete like him, does it?
Andy:
I know but it was so obvious that he’d gone out there with the intention that he was going to dominate that midfield. Yeah he did. And he was going to lead the team in midfield. There might be a more silky, silky skilled player in Charlie Alcaraz alongside him but Ghana Gueye was going to lead the team from midfield and he did.And I thought I think that was possibly his best game of the season. And it’s in the last game of the season for Evans sake and we’ve already said it was a nothing game.
We were assured a 13th etc etc and yet there he was going hell for leather for every single ball that he could that he could do. He had the kind of commitment and the kind of the commitment and dedication that Young showed in his last game. That’s priceless for a football club to have that kind of character or those kinds of characters in your side.
I mean you’ve got a character in JP. You know we’ve got a blossoming centre back partnership with O’Brien and Branthwaite with the experience of Tarkovsky there and who knows what’s going to happen with Michael Keane. He’s out of contract but yesterday as you said our kid he never put a foot wrong yesterday and you can only play what’s in front of you. Whether Isaac was uh 100 percent fit is not our concern but that was who Keane faced and he had him in his pocket. He played solidly there was no flapping, he didn’t look like he was going to make an error. You know which people have always said Keene’s got an error in him so every player knows. Joseph Yobo used to have an error in him every game. Everybody does but he was good yesterday. Michael played well yesterday. He was getting forward. Beto just grafts and grafts.
I mean there was I can’t think of anything to even a slightly negative context about yesterday’s performance. We went there we were canon for the Geordies and we took everything they could throw at us quite easily and turned it around and thoroughly deserved a win in the end and I saw a comment last night I can’t remember who said it so if you’re listening and you said it on twitter forgive me but that goal we scored yesterday was an archetypal Everton goal.
Archetypal in as much as Garna Gueye won the ball he got it wide the cross came in and leaping like a salmon was Charlie Alcoraz. That should have been a number nine. You know that should have been a Beto or a DCL or a Joe Royal or a Bob Latchford or a Dixie Dean and it wasn’t a midfielder but he got up and he put his header perfectly. What he always told was to head it down or what did he do he put it down and in the corner and Pope was stuck to his line like a rented mule, honestly completely flat footed.
Paul:
It was a Tim Cahill type goal, wasn’t it?
George:
That was simple, yeah.
Andy:
But that’s, you know, that’s the type of goal that we’ve been weaned on as blues, you know, across for a center forward or someone to climb above the defender and plant a header in the bottom corner. And it was to me that was, you know, I can’t remember, like I said, if they’re listening, forgive me for not giving you the credit, but you said it on a tweet last night, I thought, that’s absolutely bang on the money.That was an evident goal from yesteryear and for the future.
George:
Hmm. I found it on YouTube this morning and shared it to Jules. She was “ah never mind” what she was. It was fantastic to see it again. Gorgeous. Lovely goal. The whole thing
Paul:
Sorry, the whole thing about yesterday was so interesting, wasn’t it? Just listening to both of you speak, the thought went through in my mind that perhaps Moyes just said to the players, look, there isn’t a huge amount on this game. I understand that.But the challenge for you guys is to go out there and show me what you can do, whether you’re staying at the club or not. You’re either staying at the club because we’ve decided that we want you at the club or you’re moving on to something else. Well, here’s your opportunity to put yourselves in the shop window once more.
George:
Did you see his post-match chat with the press poll? Yes, yeah.Yeah, his face was, to be fair, I take on what you’re saying, but he was surprised by how well they played. Yeah. I mean, I’m sure he said all the right things, you know, he’s too experienced not to say all the right things, but they surprised him. And that’s, you know, in any context of any kind of activity for people, that’s a wonderful thing to be able to do.Gosh, you didn’t know you could do that. Wow. Brilliant. On we go.
Paul:
We’re playing a totally different game, aren’t we, from what we played earlier in the season. And in that sense, because Moyes is now drilling the side and we’re playing much more to the individual strengths of the players, it actually makes the game much easier for those players, and therefore, the opportunity to actually…
George:
prefer to keep the ball and belt it up the field and up to Godfrey.
Paul:
keep it exactly are you a couple of times I was thinking yesterday and you know it’s wrong to keep going back to dutch but just thinking well had this game happened earlier in the season before Moyes came we’d have like you know played rip defended really deep we’d have had one isolated attacker up front and we’d have been welling the ball left right and center as far away from our own goal only for it to keep coming back uh with increasing regularity which is you know pretty much how we played um in the first half of the season and it’s no wonder that the players are much more able now to express themselves um we didn’t have
George:
You’ve played football, Paul. It’s a pleasure to play when you’re playing well. Hammering it upfield is, you know, it’s nice when you go blimey, I kick that a long way. But if it’s just coming back at you, it’s not, it’s not, it’s neither in or there.
Paul:
The way that we’re playing makes it easier for them to play. Well, that’s, I mean, I think that’s the point, you know, we didn’t, we didn’t have our, um, so what we’d call our first choice defensive partnership or central defensive partnership yesterday. But that didn’t really matter because, um, first of all, they both played well, but secondly, um, they were, they were protected in front of them.
And it wasn’t a, it wasn’t a case of when, when we lost possession, uh, we were so deep that, you know, we, we had problems and we, we just, we just played so well as a, as a team, as 10 outfield players collectively.And we always looked at threat on the attack, didn’t we? And why is that? It’s well, it’s because we’ve got a bit more pace, but we’ve also got players who, when they get on the ball, drive forward.
George:
Yeah, nobody wants to tackle and dive in at Alcoraz when they’re moving.
Paul:
And no, that run that I did was absolutely incredible. Where I mean, he’s only a very slight player, isn’t he, but he brushed off three or four players. Incredibly strong. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, the ball never was never more than six inches away from the end of his boots, which is what you want from a footballer. And it sounds ridiculously simple to say that, but that’s what you want from a footballer.
But it is simple. It’s a really simple game. And it’s what the opposition don’t want. The opposition don’t want players who are going to run at you. And also then, which is, again, another big difference from how we played earlier in the season, we’ve got options ahead of the ball because people are making intelligent runs. The run that Alcaraz made just before he scored the goal, I say the movement in the box or just outside the box as he entered the box, was fantastic.
Move towards the centre and then drift away. It’s no wonder, I can’t remember who his marking player was, but it’s no wonder that he was tripping over just by virtue of the movement. And that’s stuff that we’ve lacked for years and years and years. And it’s such a joy to see, you know, amateur, I’m not going to say pundits, but amateur podcasters like us amateur in the context of being footballers have been calling this out for years and years asking for it. And then all of a sudden we see it. And therefore we shouldn’t be surprised that we get these results and we get these performances.
George:
I think he makes an enormous difference, that boy. He’s a cocky attitude. I’m going to stuff whoever’s in front of me. We’re going to stuff them. That’s gotta be contagious. And for the first time yesterday, for me, the team, and you’re right about Ghana Gueye, Andy, but the team danced to his tune. And in Gueye, you’ve got, you know, I’ve been saying this for months. If Ndiaye and, and that boy Alcoraz are on the same pitch, we’ve got problems for anybody. And I hope he gets fit and gets in the team because I think he’s a player too.
And, and, and whilst you were on marking, I must say, I thought I did laugh yesterday, the conversation that had gone on in the ever planning room, where the question must have been, when they have a corner free kick, who’s marking damn Bernie, six foot six. And Harrison got the job. I was surprised he put his hair up like a sumo wrestler. He needed some help. I mean, I just, you know, I don’t know anything about how defensive coaches do things, but that struck me as hilarious. I watched her at every corner. And there it was. No, it’s me. I’m going to stop you from getting an idea. It was
Andy:
wacky. The daft thing is, how many headers did Byrne actually win?
George:
Well, he had this little bloke running in between his legs, annoying him.
Andy:
work to treat it.
George:
I just thought it was a hoot, an absolute hoot. And it was a shame at the other end, because if Harrison should have scored twice, he had two really good chances to have a proper pot at Pope, and he fluffed both of them.Do we think he’ll be here next season? Can we get on to the buying and selling?
Paul:
He most definitely will not be here next year.
George:
And what about Ghana Gay? What’s the news that we know about?
Paul:
I don’t think we know any news about it to be honest. I think in recent weeks I’ve said I thought he would be leaving. Maybe on reflection that’s a bit hasty.Because as you identified Andy, there’s obviously probably another season left in him at least, if not more. Young can do what he does at his age. Maybe Ghana Gay is a similar type of athlete and can continue. In no way did he look as if he was physically inferior to anybody else that was on the pitch yesterday.
Andy:
No, and he kept going. Yeah, like I said, early on, I thought, I really did think, you know, he’s going, he’s going to seem so positive and gung-ho almost, I thought he would run out of gas and he didn’t.He must have a phenomenal stamina that lad.
George:
But do you, you know, when Komen bought him from Villa, if you cast him, if you can, if we can cast our mind back, has his game altered that much? Has he really lost a yard? He doesn’t look like it to me. He didn’t look like it yesterday, for sure.You know, there’s one, you know, all that bollocks of stats and this, that and the other. He’s got more interceptions and more tackles than almost anybody in the league.
Andy:
Yeah.
George:
and it’s a normal thing with him. I think they’d be crazy to let him go.Crazy. If there was somebody chomping at the bit who was like him, fine, but I’m, well, if we have got somebody like that, I don’t think we’ve seen him.
Andy:
No, I mean, I would, I’d be more than happy for Ghana Gueye to be here next season, more than happy. Like I said, for me, yesterday, I think that was his best game of the season, in the last game of the season. I thought he was outstanding.
George:
So what’s going to happen right back next year, guys, you played full back.
Paul:
Yeah, not quite at that level though.
George:
But three managers in a row got doubts about this boy, Scotland international, young, powerful. I mean, I don’t understand the position.I never played fullback. What’s wrong with him? What don’t they trust?
Paul:
Well, I don’t think he’s a modern fullback, is he, in the sense that he can get up and down the line. He’s a sort of okay defender.Don’t know, might it be attitude? Might it be just that he just doesn’t have the talent or the ability? I mean, he’s had long enough to demonstrate his worth. It’s not as if he’s not been given the opportunity. And okay, you can argue like we did earlier about the style of play and not necessarily having somebody in front of him.
George:
all going up well sorry Paul
Andy:
You weren’t a bit watery then Paul.
Paul:
OK, I mean, major problems here and. Yeah, I just don’t think he’s good enough.
Andy:
Right.
George:
That seems to be a shared opinion, so what are we supposed to do?Who was that guy that Dyche brought in with curly hair early in the season? He played rather well, I thought, and then he disappeared.
Paul:
You played it, the right back, do you remember Paul? Yeah, he played at Tottenham.
Andy:
He did, yeah, with Roman.
Paul:
Yeah, Roman, whatever the second name is (Dixon). Yeah. Sorry. Is he still with the club?Yes, he’s still with the club. I don’t know. Certainly, you know, well, look, we know Virginia and Begovic are leaving the club.
Andy:
Yeah.
Paul:
Keane, his contract runs out in a couple of weeks. Question mark whether or not he’s offered a new contract or not.Young is not saying at the club, and he’s already tweeted that he’s played the last game for the club. Coleman, question mark as to what his future role is, but probably as a coach. Mangala, he’s not going to be offered a new contract. Ghana Gueye, we were talking about, should be. Alcaraz, definitely, obviously, and we’ve got the option to buy him. Doucoure, we already know he’s leaving. Lindstrom, is Lindstrom going to stay? He hasn’t really shown enough, has he? No. Even though I understand that Moyes quite likes him as a player, he hasn’t shown enough. Harrison, I think we’ve already determined that he’s leaving. DCL, sorry George.
George:
No, I was only going to say about Harrison. Well, we have the club. I think so. Yeah.
Paul:
Right, we bear in mind that I know you can argue that the CEO shouldn’t be the one that’s making these types of decisions. But the CEO was the CEO at Leeds who got rid of him. Right. So why would he be the CEO that retains it?
Well, we’d have to buy him. Yeah. DCL, I think we can get on to DCL in a couple of minutes. And Broja, there’s the 13 players, Broja is not going to stay, obviously, because he’s just not fit enough, is he? Or doesn’t demonstrate enough fitness to warrant inclusion in the side. So out of those 13 players, um, Ghana Gueye, Alcoraz, maybe Michael Keane. That’s it.
Andy:
Well, I mean, when we’re talking about right back, I mean, if Seamus is retiring as a player and may or may not be offered some kind of coaching position, then right now that only leaves his Paterson at right back and anyone that’s in the under 21s, if Ashley Young, as he’s said, he’s played his last game for the club. I mean, my jury on Paterson is definitely out. I’m not sure that I trust him either.
Not that my opinion really matters when it comes to who’s playing for the club, but you’d like to have someone on the books that you think, yeah, you know, I’m perfectly happy with him as a right back.I mean, we’ve got the same issue at left back. We’ve only got Michael Enco. Now, I’m quite happy with Vitaly Mykolenko, I’ll be quite honest. I think he is a decent fullback. And that’s what he was bought to be. He was bought and employed to be a fullback. You know, where his game doesn’t fit the modern age is he’s perhaps not as offensive as other left backs and right backs in the league have proven to be.
But I think since Moyes has come back to the club, and I’ll give Moyes credit for this, massive credit for this, I think we’ve seen a marked improvement in Mykolenko’s ability to get forward and support the midfield.And as he did a couple of times yesterday, make decent crosses. I mean, the one in the first half, it was it put the header, I think it was Alcoraz put the header that Pope made a good save call. And then it was his cross for the goal in the second half. I think I’m more concerned about the right back than I’m about the left back. But certainly we need a starting right back and we need a good, decent backup for Mykolenko at left back in case of injury or dramatic loss of form. Thank you.
George:
and like a goalie, Andy.
Andy:
I think they’ll be promoted from the ranks, bro. All right. I’m not so sure they’ll go to the marketplace for a goalie.
George:
Right. I don’t know. I’m just.
Andy:
Yeah, I’m I’m almost I’m only saying that because I think it if they were really concerned it would have offered either Begovic or Virginia another year and they haven’t
George:
didn’t offer either of them. I can understand Begovic, but Virginia’s quite young, isn’t he?
Paul:
I think Virginia made it known that he wanted to move to a club where he can play.
George:
Yeah, we’ve got no chance with pictorities.
Andy:
Well, that’s the thing. Well, while Pickford stays a hundred percent fit, you know, the backup goalie is going to be just that, the backup goalie, and that’s.
George:
Absolutely.
Andy:
I think they’ll promote from within.
George:
And if you’re saying we’ve got 13 players, Paul, does that mean that the club are looking to bring in 12 players before August?
Paul:
Well, if you let me put it this way, if you look at the rest of the squad, ignore those 13 players that we just mentioned, some of which we think will keep Alcoraz obviously, who did we say, Ghana Gueye, and did we say somebody else?
Andy:
Well, you said potentially, potentially key.
Paul:
Yeah, potentially a team. So there’s three players. We’ve got a goalkeeper, that’s four players. Then the rest of the squad, as it stands currently, those who are contracted to 2026 is Tarkowski, Mykolenko and Garner, James Garner. So those three are obviously staying.Yeah, right. And then 2027, Pickford, obviously staying, but we need to get him to sign a new contract this summer, so that we don’t get into a situation whereby he’s only got one year left on his contract. Similarly with Branthwaite, we need to get Branthwaite to sign a new contract this summer. Paterson, question mark, Tim Urubunum, 2027. Are we keeping him? We’re certainly going to keep him for next season, but do we keep him beyond that? McNeil, Beto and Chermiti.
Andy:
Right, and O’Brien is longer than that.
Paul:
O’Brien’s 2028 and Ndiaye is 2029.
Andy:
Right.
Paul:
So we’ve probably got 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 13. We’ve got 14 players in the existing squad who are almost certainly all going to be here next season.So that means that we probably, to answer your question, George, we probably need to either add or bring up from the ranks another 10, another 10 players.
George:
Yeah. So let’s talk centre-forward, guys.
Andy:
I’m gonna suggest eight. Do we need, do we need, do we seriously need a 25-man squad?
Paul:
Um, well, let’s just think about the squad that we’ve got currently then, we’ve got 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23. We’ve got 24 in the current squad and Moyse has already said that that squad’s light.
George:
He said it’s mine.
Andy:
Right. Okay.
George:
Two goalies on the bench for every game in order to demonstrate how ridiculous it is.
Paul:
Yeah, and I don’t, you know, I hold my hand up. I don’t really look at what we’ve got in the academy and stuff like that. But I listen to people who do. And I don’t hear anybody saying, well, there’s this kid that’s knocking on the door, he’s going to be Premier League ready next season.Dixon is yeah, that we were thinking about. Yeah. And he might be the possible exception. Yeah, I thought he played great. I mean, it was a terrible game, the 4-0 at Tottenham. But I thought he played well in that game. But we haven’t heard much about him since. No, no. And it’s not like he’s been knocking on the door or, you know, since really, and, you know, obviously, since Moyes arrived. So, question mark, but yeah, so whether it’s eight or whether it’s 10, huge amount of business that needs to be done.
George:
Hmm, okay, should we talk centre forward or do you want to tell me who you think we’re aiming to sell?
Paul:
Who, who are we, out of all the players, out of all of the players that are in our squad currently, the only players, I think that we can possibly even think about selling are Patterson and Chermitti.
George:
Right. I’m Harrison. No, how she is.
Paul:
Harrison’s gone. So he goes back to Leeds in a couple of weeks’ time.
George:
Okay, and tell me about Chermitti then what’s your what’s your what you guys what’s your opinion on him and DCL and our forward line?
Paul:
Well, DCL is not going to stay, is he? I mean, I looked, I looked up, I did a bit of preparation for once.This, yeah, I know, destroy a habit of a lifetime.
This season, 26 appearances, three goals, two assists, 23-24 season before, 32 appearances, seven goals, two assists, 22-23, 17 games, two goals, one assist, 21-22, 17 games, 17 appearances, five goals, two assists. The last time he contributed anything that was significant, in my view.
Andy:
Ancelotti!
Paul:
under Ancelotti, 20-21 33 games 16 goals and three assists. 161 appearances for Everton scored 46 goals that’s a goal every 251 minutes
Andy:
No, it’s not enough, is it? Nowhere close.
Paul:
No. And when you think about Beto, Beto has scored a goal every 180 minutes this season.
George:
Okay, so I’m a money ball principal, that’s easy. Yeah, so let’s say Beto, please. What’s your feelings about Chermitti?
Andy:
I know, let’s just stick with DCL, bro.
George:
Sorry, Andy.
Paul:
Sorry, go ahead. So DCL is out of contract. Yeah, he’s not going to get the same contract at Everton that he that he’s had for a number of years. And so therefore he’s going to look to go elsewhere.And he would be the I think he would be the ideal player for one of the promotion teams to take because he’s got family experience.
George:
Yeah.
Paul:
And he’s, in a sense, he’s used to playing in a team that struggles. I hate to say that, but, you know, it is the case.Um, and if, well, yeah, I just, I just, just don’t think there’s a, there’s a world in which he stays at Everton.
George:
Right.
Andy:
Okay, so whilst there’s not going to be a fee involved, there’s going to be a saving on the salaries.
Paul:
Yeah, which is only a saving in terms of we’ve got to bring somebody else in to replace them.
Andy:
Yeah, no, but potentially, if we bring somebody in on, we’re able to bring somebody in on less than DCL is currently getting, then that’s a win.
Paul:
Yes.
George:
I would say that’s the wrong position, as regards Everton Football Club, I would say that was the wrong position to think economically. This club needs somebody who can stick the ball in the back of the net. If you have to pay big dollars for that, you have to pay big dollars for it.
Andy:
Right, then in which case, then DCL is going because DCL doesn’t score prolifically enough to warrant the kind of contract he thinks he’s entitled or he seems to think he’s entitled to.
George:
Well, that’s you know, yeah, fair enough. That’s that. That’s the end of the line, but that is
Paul:
isn’t it? I don’t think he should be criticized in any sense for saying, this is my market price.
George:
Yeah, no, no, of course not. I hope somebody pays it. I hope he gets back in the England squad. Got a lot of time for DCL. A lot, a lot of time.But, you know, the stats that you just read out are cruel. But we need a goal scorer. We need somebody, you know, he had one chance yesterday, and he fluffed both of them because, you know, he hit the goalie and then he put it over the bar. We have to have somebody, and I don’t believe better is that person either, who will put those things in the back of the onion bag. You know, you’re looking for Linekas and people like that, but we, as a club, desperately need somebody to finish everything. Then Ndiaye’s eight goals of the season become a real bonus, instead of which he’s the leading goal scorer. Well, you know, don’t really think we bought him as a poacher, do we?
Paul:
That’s always got 10 goals this season, 8 and 10 in the league.
George:
Yeah fair play to him and he deserved every single one of them and never seen anybody like Andy said work so hard But is he a crucial Premier League finisher not for me
Paul:
What if you took the view that Moyes put his arm around him and said, look, you’ve really improved as a player since I’ve been here. Your finishing has been a bit sharper. And actually, your play outside the box has been a little bit better. You played well yesterday.
George:
Back to you.
Paul:
I think a really strong close season and a really good pre-season, we can expect let’s say a 25% improvement on what he’s done this year. That means he’s in the area of scoring 12-13 goals.We can’t afford to give up on a player eventually.
Andy:
and that’s without him playing every game as well this year Paul. How many games has he played? Or more importantly how many has he started?
Paul:
My statto levels didn’t quite get to that level today, Andy.
Andy:
we know we know that under under Dyche he had limited limited game time so his product his goal production has predominantly come in the second half of the season since Moyes arrived so if he scored 10 from 20 games as against 10 from from 38 games then a 25% improvement over 30 games that’s going to put him up around 20 goals a season and at the minute that’s that would be priceless for Everton.
George:
I am definitely not saying we should get rid of him. I’m sure he’s going to be in that squad next season, and he’s in that squad on marriage.But here comes the main point, I think. Suppose, for instance, that Everton, who’ve been invited to speak to him, do manage to interest Delap. Does that mean, well, just, you know, he’s a better bet than DCL, better bet than Chermitti, who I like. I think Chermitti can play football. But if he’s available, does that mean that Moyes has to consider playing a system he doesn’t want to play, or hasn’t yet played, which he’s too up from?
Andy:
you. Sorry.I say you would imagine so because if, if, if Dallap is signed, if we manage to secure his signature, because he’s got more chance of playing, it’s, it’s wrong to say this, but as against a Lineker or a Shearer or a Malcolm, you said his hold up play yesterday was better.
George:
And you get a drag back, I got that excited about that.
Andy:
Yeah, I spotted that as well. And I think, for sure, better will be in next year.I don’t think this. I don’t think Paul’s right. There should be no way that that bro is retained. He should be sent back to Chelsea, you know, with a thank you note tied to his toe. Oh, we’re back again.
George:
Where do you want to set this one from Paul?
Paul:
And just let’s continue and I’ll edit it as best as I can. Broja will already be back in SW5, so let’s not concern ourselves about him.
Andy:
Okay.
George:
So the question is…
Andy:
The question is then, we assume that DCL will leave. That currently leaves us with Beto and Chermitti and so if we’re able to secure or if Moyes is successful in convincing Dilap to join Everton from Ipswich instead of going to Old Trafford or Chelsea, then what are the possibilities of Moyes instead of playing one up front as he seems to prefer actually playing two up front with Dilap and either Beto or Chermitti alongside him or just behind him.Everything hinges on the signing of Dilap or any other to take the number nine shirt in inverted commas number nine shirt in the in
George:
And in the peak of his time with us, when he had Ginger Eyre, and we had Tommy Graf and Lee Carsley and Arteta and Cahill, did he play two up front?
Andy:
You know, we had Andy Johnson as well, didn’t we, and the yak and the yak. Yeah.
George:
So it’s not in did West Ham play from ever? Not really.
Andy:
I’m not sure I can answer that Andy, yeah George, sure. No, I didn’t take much notice of our West Ham play as long as we were beating him.
George:
Well, it just makes a difference as to how many centre forwards he wants. You would imagine three would be a good idea and a better idea than two.
Paul:
I think you’ve got to have three as a minimum, haven’t you? In case one gets injured and maybe one’s out of form, then at least…
George:
So I’m finally going to get this question through to the pair of you. Give me your thoughts on Chermitti. And whether we should keep him, I guess.
Andy:
Well, on the grounds that DCL looks like he’s going, Brojais going back to Chelsea. That only leaves Beto and Chermitti on the books.
George:
Right. So that’s a no brainer.
Andy:
So it’s a no brainer and the emphasis then is to bring in another centre forward to give us the three that we’ve just decided we need.
Paul:
Yeah. And if by any chance we can bring in two, then Chermitti goes.
George:
that. Yeah. Yeah. When’s his contract up Paul? 2027. Right. I rate him. I think he’s a player.
Paul:
I know you’ve always said that, George. And I just don’t think we’ve seen enough of her.
George:
No, we haven’t. Definitely not.And for good reason, if you’re playing 4-2-4-1 or whatever it is we’re playing, and the one has definitely got me better at the moment. He’s definitely in command of that shirt. No question.
Paul:
Yeah, I think all the music around Beto, certainly from Moyes, is that Moyes thinks he’s got somebody here that, you know, can certainly add to the squad. And I just can’t see a world where he was, where he leaves because he obviously thoroughly enjoys being here.
George:
Yeah, no, no, I don’t think there’s any way he’s leaving, is there? Yeah.
Paul:
The players all respond to him and love having him around from what I hear and the manager does as well so he’s not going anywhere.
George:
Can I ask, can I ask another question before we have to wrap it up, which is a request from somebody who heard a rumour that there is a possibility that we will not start next season. Our first home game won’t be at Bramley-Moore Dock for one reason or another.Have we got any?
Andy:
But isn’t it more the case that the rumour items that the club was asking the Premier League if the first three or maybe four games could all be played away from home? Because there still wasn’t going on at Bramley-Moore.
George:
Right. So that’s the situation.
Andy:
I don’t know. That’s what I’d heard, whether that’s kosher or not. I don’t know.
Paul:
Well, we’ve got to play one more game in front of a full capacity. Yeah, a test event. A test event. And I believe that although I don’t know the date. That’s going to be as from a. All right, obvious reason, obvious reasons. But that has to be played out in terms of a full capacity crowd in order to get our safety certificate.And that means that the work and as far as I understand it, the work that’s outstanding still relates to the. What do you call it? The court, the corporate areas, right? And I genuinely don’t know what the status of that is, how far off we are from being completed. So I think it’s all contingent upon that, really. And the rumor is that we might ask for at least a couple of games too. To give us just a little bit more time. And then we’re back.
George:
away from home. Let’s just play the first 21 games away from home.
Paul:
We still need to, the key is, we still need to have the last test event before the beginning of the season. So how close to the beginning of the season that will be will obviously probably determine what happens in terms of fixtures. Okay.
George:
OK, thank you. What we’re going to talk about next week, guys.
Paul:
Just before we finish, just a quick word on Jordan Pickford.
Andy:
Yeah.
Paul:
I mean, what a fantastic weekend for him.
Andy:
Sunderland got promoted and he got a clean sheet at the Toon.
Paul:
Yeah. And this season was his career best in terms of not conceding goals or rather in terms of the numbers of goals conceded.In 2020-21, he conceded 39 goals, but he only played in 31 games. This season, he obviously played in every game, every league game, and he only conceded 44 goals, which is, for him, a personal record.
George:
He’s a player of the season, there’s no question, is there?
Paul:
I think so. Yeah, I think so. For many reasons, really, I think it’s obviously his performance as goalkeeper, but his contribution to the team and his perseverance when at the beginning of the season.
In a sense, I think we’ve got to finish now, we’ve got to put where we are now in the context of where we were just a few months ago, which is in the sense where we started this podcast today.The fans have obviously been in the constant, but in terms of the team, Pickford has been the constant for many, many years.
And he’s set standards consistently for years and years and years now, I have a sense that nobody else has been able to match. And that’s why I think that’s why he’s loved and that’s why he’s respected. And that’s why he’s now captain of the club. Yeah. And there’s nothing more you can really say about that other than the fact that, you know, we’re in a sense, we’re blessed to have him. And he loves being here. And long may he stay as our goalkeeper.
Andy:
Yeah.
Paul:
Thank you.
George:
So anyway.
Andy:
For me, one of the biggest things about Pickford is he is a character in a game that all too often we moan about, there’s a lack of characters these days against yesteryear, Pickford is a character.
I mean, some of the faces he pulls when he makes the saves and his interaction with the crowd, be it the home crowd or the opposition crowd, it’s comical at times.It’s like he’s playing football in the park. I mean, we know he’s on a park playing football, be it Goodison Park, St. James’s Park or whatever park, but it’s like he’s still a schoolboy playing with his mates in the park and he has to save them and pulls a funny face.
It’s like he almost doesn’t take it seriously, obviously does take it seriously, but he plays the game with a smile on his face and that’s good to see in this day and age.
Paul:
I mean, yeah, absolutely. Andy, he’s nowhere, nowhere near this level, but he’s there’s an element of the task going about him. Yeah, yeah. And I don’t mean that in a disparaging way in any sense.
Andy:
You know he used to say that he had to be a bit of a nutter to be a goalie. Well he personifies it, doesn’t he?
Paul:
Yeah, he absolutely loves it, doesn’t he? You can see that he is absolutely in his one, you know, great happy space when he’s playing football for Everton and the relationship between him and the fans has grown up over the years.You know, because there were times when people used to, when Evertonians, let alone other people, used to question whether or not he was as good as perhaps we thought he was. And obviously, an awful lot of football supporters from other clubs have questioned him as England’s number one goalkeeper, but he’s got 75 caps now and there is no English goalkeeper anywhere near his levels of consistency. Nor indeed, his ability to pull off outstanding saves when he has to.
Andy:
I completely agree with that. His position as England number one appears assured until either he has a dramatic loss of form, which I don’t think he’ll allow himself to have. He seems too driven.Or somebody, somebody steps out of the, out of the dark corner somewhere and genuinely pushes him. But I think he’s pushing himself. I don’t think he’s, I don’t think he’s relying on other people to push him to maintain his form. I think he’s doing it himself.
Paul:
Yeah, totally. You know, he’s missed, he’s only missed 10 league games since 2017.
George:
Mmm, man’s a star.
Andy:
Yeah, he is. And he’s funny and he’s got a good song and all.
George:
And he saved Gordon’s penalty, that was the best bit of the whole year, that was.
Paul:
Well, I mean, just going back to yesterday, you know, you made a couple of critical saves yesterday. Saves that you would expect Jordan Pickford to make, but it wasn’t as if he was like on the beach all day, was it?
Andy:
No, on the contrary. Like our kid said, he’d made his mind up on the bus going up there. They ain’t scoring past me tomorrow.
George:
Yeah. He looked impregnable. I really enjoyed watching him when it was one nil and you start, you know, that bit where you’re, you’re watching the game and you’re watching the clock as well. I thought, nah, no, nothing’s going in that net now.And then Shah had that wonderful shot and it was just screeching past him and passing the post as well. That might have scored, but there you go. He’s a star. Come on, you blues.
Paul:
Right, okay, let’s leave it there. Thank you both very much.From anybody listening, a couple of technical faults, technical problems, which I will try and glue together.
But anyway, we’ve got to the end of the season, we’re in a much better place than we ever thought was possible in the beginning of the season. And we’ve got so much to look forward to over the summer in terms of new players, in terms of what Moyes can do with the players that stay.
And, you know, a brand new management team in terms of the business and obviously, and perhaps even more importantly, we’re going into our brand new stadium. What is there not to look forward to as an Evertonian?
George:
Thank you.
Paul:
You want a list? You’re supposed to say, no, there’s nothing that we can’t look forward to.
George:
No, sorry, I’ve been another Tony for far too long. I’ll be very, very happy to hear that we had a 52,000 crowd for this Test match and everybody got home in a reasonable time and nobody’s moaning and nobody had to be in a cattle pen for 12 hours or something ridiculous, because, you know, I’m concerned about that.
But in terms of footy and the team and the spirit of the club and the relationship between the clubs and the fans, you’re right. This has been a big season, a big breakthrough season.
Paul:
I’ll go back to my comments about the soul of the club is back and there’s a unity between the fans and the club that hasn’t been there for many years. Not that the fans have ever moved away from that.
They haven’t. It’s been the club, but there we are. We’re back. We’re together and we’re so much stronger and it’s so much more enjoyable because of that.Yeah, it is.
Okay, guys. Thank you very much. Thank you to everybody listening to us. And well, we’ll think of something to talk about next week. Cheers to all. Take care.