Welcome to the transcript of the Talking the Blues Podcast, Liverpool Home broadcast on April 25th 2024:
Music:
Baby, baby, she’s in need of a kiss I said, hey, what’s your name, baby? Baby, we can see the things I say Now, don’t you wait Oh, hell, they’re dead Let’s move before they raise the money, baby; All right now Baby, it’s all right now All right now Baby, it’s all right now
Paul:
Good morning, good afternoon or good evening Depending upon where in the world you are At what time of the day you’re listening to this episode of Talking the Blues A very joyous episode of Talking the Blues In fact, it’s the first Talking the Blues, Andy and George, that we’ve done When Everton have won a Derby match at, I was going to say, Anfield We’ve done that already at Goodison How are you both?
George:
Not bad
Andy:
Yeah, somewhat, somewhat better than the other day.
Paul:
What a football club, eh? Just when you think it’s all going absolutely the wrong way, just like drags you back in, doesn’t it?
Andy:
It’s the Godfather III, isn’t it? Just when you thought you were out they dragged you back in.
Paul:
Is that where that expression comes from?
Andy:
Yeah, Michael Corleone.
Paul:
No, it is true, isn’t it? Unashamedly, I was, as ridiculous as it sounds. I was in tears at the final whistle, just incredible. And it shouldn’t really be that way. It’s just a game of football at the end of the day.
George:
Why? Why shouldn’t it be that way?
Andy:
you’re wrong Paul that’s exactly how it should be it should be that emotional yeah that’s what it’s about that’s your connection with the club that it gets you right to the right to your heartstrings right to the pit of your stomach when you lose it hurts and when it’s when they win it’s joyous
Paul:
Yeah, I know you’re right. Sometimes it needs something like last night to actually make you understand or make you realise to a greater degree how much all of this actually means to us.
George:
Yeah, remember.
Andy:
you know we’ve got we’ve got too many dark days last last night was an evening of of enlightenment
George:
Three in a row, Brentford must be dreading it.
Andy:
Yeah, nine points out of the last 12.
George:
Oh dear.
Paul:
Yeah, so where do we start?
Andy:
and I think you’ve got to give Sean Dyche an enormous amount of credit. I think you’ve got to give every single player that put a pull on a blue shirt last night an enormous amount of credit. Every one of them put a shift in.
They gave Liverpool no time on the ball whatsoever. They crunched into every tackle and for some of those players last night they had arguably their best games in a blue shirt. Jack Harrison for one was a completely different player to the player we’ve watched in recent weeks.
McNeil was back up on top form. DCL was a revelation to the DCL a few weeks ago. Tarkovsky and Branthwaite were impervious at the back. Godfrey put a tremendous shift in as a makeshift right back. You know, Mykolenko everyone thought he broke his ankle but hey I’ll play another six minutes just to get us through to half time.
Andy:
You know and then even when Ashley Young, I mean Mykolenko never gave Salah a kick and when you know people must have thought when he didn’t reappear for the second half oh my god Salah is going to have a field day against Ashley Young.
You got that wrong. Young did a job last night. Fair play to him. They all played well last night. Pickford was brilliant. You couldn’t, you couldn’t pick a fault in the Everton performance last night.
I don’t think anybody could pick a fault. You know I mean what were the possession stats? 23 possession and they out fought and well they had much the better of that Liverpool side last night and it’s been long overdue.
It was great for it to happen at Goodison. It was great for it to happen on a Wednesday night. Fantastic for all those fans that were there and the effort that’s gone into lifting the spirits of the players through all the nonsense that’s gone on around the club you know for far too long you know.
I would imagine every single Blue on Merseyside today is having an absolute ball. I know most of the people that I’ve been texting and it’s only been three or four thousand people. I mean I’m in a WhatsApp group with a load of guys I used to work with who are all Man United fans and every single one of them was laughing their heads off today at some of the videos and recordings that are going round.
They thoroughly enjoyed it.
Paul:
George, what were your feelings?
George:
I’m not quite as euphoric as that, it felt to me like the plan was to lump it, lose it and watch them play. I couldn’t figure that out. And when we did keep the ball, yes, Liverpool pressed very hard and made it very difficult for you to do things very quickly.
But when we did keep the ball, we did all right at keeping it. So I was a bit lost as to why we were forever. You know, the first 10 minutes of the second half, you just thump it up there. DCL may gets the first touch and that’s it.
Back to Liverpool, running at you. I couldn’t see the sense of it. I was looking at the clock and thinking, oh, my God. And then, you know, then they fall for the oldest trick in the world. Everybody knows that McNeil’s corner is going to the back post.
And DCL’s header, I must say, was a piece of poetry. It was like the whole season in that header, we just went, oh, p*ck off. It was just gorgeous.
Andy:
Funny enough, I had a message from a mate of mine who’s a Bolton Wanderers fan and Colin’s considerably older than us, and Colin texted me last night and said big Nat would have loved that one.
George:
That header was the whole season, all his frustration, all our frustration. But, you know, I certainly did. Everybody’s going, you know, wonderful performance. I didn’t think so at all. I don’t really want to watch everything play 23 percent possession football when they don’t need to.
I think they’re better than that. And Andy’s absolutely right. Every single person on the pitch had a terrific game. Well, if 11 players turn up and play, that’s very hard for anybody else and Liverpool were poor in places.
Nunez and Salah, not Diaz. I thought Diaz was a threat all night. Well, we’re just not there. Not the races at all. So good fun. And, you know, watching it on the telly, there was a shot late in the second half of a girl in the crowd singing and her face was just so full of joy.
And and that, like Andy just said about to you, Paul, you know, that that brings it all back to you, that what that means to support a team that’s as bad as we’ve been, a club that’s as badly run as we are.
And to get a night like that, we just go, no, no, this is why I believe it was gorgeous, gorgeous. But I’m a little bit more critical of the way we played than Andy was. But, you know,
Andy:
I’m going to take a little bit of an exception with that kid. I thought Dyche got his tactics right last night. Okay.
George:
but I didn’t particularly enjoy watching it.
Andy:
No, I know what you’re saying about the long ball and it was kind of hitting hope and whatnot, but I think he was targeting the centre of that Liverpool defence that’s looked iffy for more than a few weeks now.
And DCL did give Kanate and Van Dijk a bad time last night. Yes, he did. And then, as you rightly said, it was topped off with his goal. Because as you said, everyone knows that ball from MacNeil is going to the back post where either Tarkovsky, Branthwaite or DCL are going to go up for it.
And if you look, DCL is up in the air. None of the Liverpool players have got off the deck. And I think Dyche suspects that they’re suspect in the air. And that’s why we went with so much direct play in that first half, the long ball.
George:
Andy, you’re being super generous. We’ve been booting it long for a month.
Paul:
Yeah. I think we’ve booted it long. I think we did more than that, actually. But when we did boot it long, we booted it long with a purpose last night. Yeah.
Andy:
Because I think he felt that the centre of that Liverpool defence would be got at, and it was proven last night, they were got at, they were rattled, they were rattled early on and they were rattled throughout.
Paul:
Yeah, I mean, DCL must think, must hope and pray that he plays van Dyke every week. Because he has, you know, we’ve been quite not unfairly critical. We’ve asked questions haven’t we in recent weeks about DCL and whether or not he’s still the player that he was or that he threatened to be whether he still had the first I think I said a couple of weeks ago, whether he still had the physicality to trouble top class defenders.
And I’m not saying that Liverpool central defensive top class defenders, but they clearly play for, you know, a very successful team, for want of a better word. A bit of a kiddable outfit, aren’t they?
Yeah, very. Yeah, more than that. And he gave them when he considered the other teams at Liverpool play against in the Champions League and you know, the games against the other five of the top six.
DCL last night must have given Liverpool central defense the hardest game it has had in years.
George:
Yep, we had a problem there.
Paul:
Um, and they will, they will come off that pitch, particularly, you know, in half time, wondering what the hell had hit them. And one of the really interesting things I thought about last night was, you know, we’ve, we’ve often said about Dyche that, uh, does he have the ability to change games?
Does he have the ability to react to, uh, the opposition? Can he change tactics? Can he make good use of substitutions and stuff? All of which are valid questions, if not necessarily criticisms. Um, but actually last night, I thought exactly the same about Klopp.
I thought Klopp, uh, didn’t, not that it should really interest us, but he didn’t set up his team while he didn’t respond at all to Everton’s tactics and maybe, maybe this is about the grand tour that he’s engaged in, in announcing his departure so early on in the season, um, as all caught up with him now, and he looked, he looked, and I’m quite pleased to say this, and I don’t mean this disrespectfully to him as an, as a, as an individual, but he looked quite a busted flush last night.
Andy:
You don’t care, you don’t care, how sad, never mind.
Paul:
He did, I thought he looked clueless at times. He didn’t know how to respond to Everton’s aggression and to Everton’s directness and as I say, our aggression and our directness for once was one with great purpose I thought.

Andy: I mean, it was well channelled, I thought, last night. I thought he got it absolutely bang on. And it might not be, you know, school of science, football, or whatever, but it was bloody effective. And at the end of the day, that’s what it’s about.
Both sides wanted those three points last night. And in all God’s honest truth, there was only one side that was coming away from the Goodison last night with three points, and we got them. They were second best all night.
They were second best in the tackle. They were second best in the finishing. The only thing that they won on the night was three yellow cards to none.
Paul:
When was the last time we had a Derby match where we didn’t have a yellow card?
George:
Yeah, when was the last time we had a match when we didn’t have a yellow card? It was really, really focused.
Paul:
It was good, it was good. Dice was really interesting in some of his post -match comments, in the sense that he said before the game, he was a little concerned that the players were quite quiet, but he realised as soon as the game started that actually the quietness was a result of focus and concentration, and they were focused on the task that was before them.
And I thought that was really interesting. I think Dyche probably learned quite a bit about himself as much as he learned about the team after the Chelsea game. And I think he’s adapted his approach somewhat.
Andy:
I liked one of his other comments last night when he was asked afterwards, so did the players get a day off tomorrow? No.
George:
No, of course not.
Andy:
yeah i thought that was i thought that was good excellent no we’re back at it
Paul:
Yeah, because the job is nearly done, but it’s not fully done yet, is it?
Andy:
Yes, I’m fully done. It’s close, but…
George:
Beat Brentford, 2 -0, we got above him.
Andy:
Yeah.
George:
that was just so joyous for the fans, all that suffering that we’ve been through, you know, the Bournemouth match last season and the Palace match the year before, don’t compare to that.
Andy:
No.
George:
where you not only stuff tshat lot, but squinny up there, Premiership. It was a treat and an absolute treat. I thought Idrisa Gharna Gueye was amazing. And Dyche got that call right, too, because when he took him off, I thought, are you seriously taking him off?
He’s playing out of his skin, but I know I’m a terrific adult. So maybe the barney between him and Dyche has been healed or Dyche has said to him, just go and do your job, son, and I’ll get off your back.
Yeah, he did. He was really good and a better choice than bringing Gomes on. Gomes, I’ve got the pace for that kind of game at all.
Andy:
No, there’ll be other games for Andre Gomes. I know we’ve only got four games left now, but Gomes, if he’s going to have a swansong appearance for the Blues, if you like, with him being out of contract at the end of the season, then let him have it against, I don’t know, Sheffield United or Luton or whatever.
I don’t think there was very little you could be critical of last night in the Everton performance. Style-wise, maybe it was a bit lacking, but effectiveness and the intensity they showed, which is something we’ve been critical of them not showing enough of in past games, the intensity was absolutely bang on last night.
The purpose in which they played, the commitment was exemplary. There was an awful lot there to build on if they could maintain that level. And how many times have we said that? They set a level last night, and if they could maintain that and then add some quality along the way to the play, then brilliant.
George:
Well, according to you, Andy, they’re in there now working while we’re all sitting here banging our jaws together.
Andy:
Exactly, they’re all sat there all on the training ground thinking those three are just waffling with Grafton. You carry on Grafton boys!
George:
Now, what should we talk about? I know what we should talk about the serialized United, a target in Branthwaite. Rumors are peppering my telephone, which is no surprise. Of course, they should. But just thinking about it, only I think only a very bad agent or somebody would advise Branthwaite to take that offer up.
Paul:
No, I would be staggered if he went to Manchester United.
George:
That would be the worst place to go.
Paul:
Um, I think I personally, I think we talked about it at the weekend, didn’t we? I think there’s only probably one club you can go to that’s Manchester city, unfortunately, um, but you know, we’re waiting to see, it was just, just before we get onto all the things, just going back to the match for a second.
I suppose that the question that has to be asked as a result of last night and last night was extraordinary. It was, it was, um, it was great. It was everything that we want, uh, as Evertonians. Um, but the question that has to be asked, I suppose, is that, you know, it’s, it was such one of the reasons why it was extraordinary.
Why was it such a rare event? Uh, not only to beat Liverpool, but to play in the way that we did play and to have a group of players wholly committed and not only wholly committed, but also totally embraced each other.
And with a very clear plan and that plan was known to each of them and each of them executed, um, whatever their role in the plan was. And, you know, life is obviously not perfect and any, it’d be great if you could do that every single week.
Um, clearly we’re not at the, at that position, but what does dice take from this in terms of, okay. So this was a very important game. It was potentially the last, uh, night Derby match at Anfield (Sorry Goodison)
Uh, it was a, sorry, that’s why I said that. I could, isn’t why, you know, it was, um, Klopp’s last game, which sort of is important in the sense that he’d never lost to Everton at Goodison. Um, how does he take that now and translate that into, this is the, this is the level at which we must operate every single week.
Because to the fan base, as fantastic as that was, that’s really what they should be expecting and seeing every single week.
George:
Blimey, a part of me thinks you’re being unfair to him, in the sense that if you cast your mind back to…
Paul:
George, we’ve lost you, I’m afraid. Sorry?
George:
We lost you then. You can’t hear me.
Paul:
Now, you said I was perhaps being unfair to him.
George:
Yeah, I think so, because if you cast your mind back to Ancelotti, Benitez, Foldy Arms, Frank, Silvs, I think the level of physical commitment is unrecognizable. The one thing Dyche has done that none of the others have done is got those players working hard.
Now, they haven’t always been, you know, you’ve got to get 11 people to do it all at the same time. Last night they did. Other times they haven’t, but I’ve not seen them phone it in under Dyche. So I’m not quite sure, I mean, it’s a really good question what you’re asking, but I’m not sure what the answer is.
I’m not sure what he would look at and go, what did I get so right last night? Maybe you guys are right, maybe, you know, it was as simple as football is a very simple game target in the middle of their defence.
Is you’re going to do the same thing with Brentford? Brentford likes to put the thing on the deck.
Paul:
And yeah, I often in life when you achieve something, the really difficult bit, I mean, obviously achieving something is difficult, but the really difficult bit is achieving this again. Yeah. You know, I’m sure it’s happened to you, George, as an actor, you have a great performance and then you have to have that great performance the following night.
Yea Yea is a very famous story of Olivier. He did Othello and he was all blacked up to play Othello and he didn’t go into the shower and eventually everybody went he sat in his dressing room all blacked up and they went and found the director and the director knocked on the door and Olivier said what you don’t like us saying on this podcast and the director said to him you were brilliant what’s the matter he said I know I was brilliant I don’t know how to do it tomorrow so yeah
Paul:
And that to me is, I didn’t know that story, it’s a brilliant story, and it is exactly the same scenario that everybody at Goodison or Finch Farm today will face.
George:
But, you know, Paul, you know, that’s what makes, that’s what separates, I guess, the great managers and motivators that, you know, they’ve got more resources than we’ve got la -la -la -la, that you could make a case out that we’ve wasted, finally, the resources that we finally got.
But Guadiola’s team do tend to play at that level all the time. And since, you know, you would judge yourself against other people at your level in your field of work. I thought you did. So I would imagine Dyche is going right.
Okay, so I’ve just, I’ve got to up my personal intensity. I don’t know. It’ll be very interesting to see how he is and how the team is on Saturday. It’s a very short turnaround to another game of football.
Andy:
They probably can’t wait to get out there on Sunday.
George:
I’m with us also, Andy, yeah.
Andy:
Yeah, they’re probably wishing it was 3 o ‘clock kick off rather than 5 .30.
George:
All right.
Andy:
You know, just just just to get back on the field as quickly as possible and carry on, you know, carry on from where they left off. I mean, it will be a different game against Brentford for sure.
But I mean, you know, I seriously think, you know, that he made very, very specific demands of the side last night and set them goals. So, you know, as I said, to get at the middle of Liverpool’s defence and knock them out of the game.
And I’ve said if he’s if he’s coming up with a similar kind of game plan for Brentford, if they if they’ve analysed video of Brentford and I think they found a weak spot in the Brentford side, you know, in the Brentford defence or whatever, then target it, get at it and make it work for him.
George:
Yep, that’s his job every week, yeah.
Andy:
Exactly, yeah. And, you know, maybe things went so well last night that, you know, maybe he obviously pressed every button in every player because every one of them did a job.
George:
Is that three wins in a row? Is that three wins in a row?
Andy:
No, no, because we lost at Chelsea, didn’t we? But it’s three in the last four. Three home runs. Three home wins, Burnley, Forest and Liverpool.
Paul:
And all with clean sheets as well. All with clean sheets, yeah. Which opens up the conversation nicely with regards to Jordan Pickford.
Andy:
Well, he’s only two now behind David Raya into the Arsenal for the Golden Glove. Raya’s had 14 clean sheets, Pickford’s had 12.
Paul:
Right.
Andy:
So, you know, but that’s why it’s England’s number one.
George:
Yeah, the blinds.
Andy:
Despite the fact that he can be erratic and he can look a little bit manic at times, he gets the job done. The Nunez and Diaz shots in the first half were more or less at him, but then he made the excellent save from Elliot late on to tip it over the bar for a corner.
Andy:
We talked about this before, about corners. Everton seemed quite happy to concede corners last night. What with a corner count, 13 -3 I think, something daft like that. But did we ever look seriously troubled from a Liverpool corner?
No, because I think he’s got that defence so well drilled and so well organised at the minute. Right now I don’t think Everton fear conceding corners too much. They certainly didn’t last night.
Paul:
Yeah, I think I think I think you’re spot on with that. It’s interesting, I was looking at sort of just randomly looking at stuff with regards to Pickford before the podcast. And I came across an interview that he did after he signed his most recent contract extension, which, assuming that he sees out the whole contract, and I hope for goodness that he does.
He says by signing this contract, I will, I’ve committed myself to Everton for a whole 10 years, a decade. And it’s my aim to be remembered in the same light as all of Everton’s great goalkeepers, including Neville Southall.
George:
I found it.
Andy:
Yeah.
George:
and I thought
Paul:
that probably got some media attention at the time. But actually, when you think about it now, what a statement to make. And he’s actually, he’s actually demonstrating that I’m not saying he’s as brilliant a goalkeeper as Neville Southall was.
But because he’s a different type of he’s obviously a very different type of goalkeeper. But I think he shows the same commitment to Everton that Neville Southall did to Everton when Southall played for us.
Andy:
Yeah.
George:
I also, I’ve always thought about Pickford, that he, because he is England’s number one, this is the best club for him to play for because he got more work to do.
Andy:
He keeps him on his game, doesn’t he?
George:
I think so. You know, he had to make four blinding saves last night. I used to be a goalie. It’s much more fun coming off with a clean sheet when you’ve made four or five saves than they never even got to you.
Like you just said, you feel like you’ve done your job. I just think he’s high as a kite.
Paul:
There was no doubt that he enjoyed every single moment of last night.
George:
Yeah, and that’s always great when players share that with the public. It’s brilliant.
Paul:
And his reaction in the final whistle on, yeah, you know, he is a bit batty, isn’t he? He’s a bit sort of eccentric and he does like to show his emotions, but that was fantastic. He was in an age where often players are thought of as just, OK, good football is technically gifted footballers, but they’re just there to pick up the money and it doesn’t come across that way at all.
Andy:
I think you’ve got with Pickford, someone, I mean, he’s still, you know, he’s still a rabid Sunderland fan. And I think he takes that love of the game, the love of the club. He obviously loved Sunderland Football Club as a supporter.
And he’s grown to love everything as a player. And I think he just takes his reaction on the pitch last night as a supporter. He was as made up as anybody in the crowd, because he knows what we go through.
Andy:
He knows what the people on the terraces are going through. Because when he isn’t playing, he’s on the terraces at the Stadium of Light.
Paul:
Yeah, he’s a season ticket holder in the stadium of light.
Andy:
Yeah, that right.
Yeah, and he and he and he goes with the boys. You know, he’s not he’s not with the prawn sandwich brigade. He goes, you know, he’ll go on the terraces with them because he’s.
George:
Can you actually get a prawn sandwich in Sunderland?
Andy:
No, but they do a fantastic hog roast.
George:
I bet they make really good pies.
Andy:
Know the hog roast is what you want when you go to the stadium of light bro. Trust me
George:
‘m serious.
Andy:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s brilliant. And you can get a bottle of wine in the stands. Go on. It’s really quite civilised the stage in the light where food and beverage are concerned.
Paul:
Wow, just just run that one through us again, Andy. How does that work?
Andy:
What?
Paul:
a hog roast and a bottle of wine.
Andy:
not well the hog roast is outside when you go to the bar in the stadium you can you can get yourself a glass of wine you’ve got red and white it’s really very civilized
Paul:
I can just see you standing there with your pinkie out, drinking a nice glass of chilled rose.
Andy:
There you go. It has to be done.
George:
Well, don’t regret learning to cook next year.
Andy:
I seriously recommend the hog roast at Sunderland. If you have, next time we play Sunderland in the FA Cup.
George:
We’ll go.
Andy:
we should go and have hog roast and a glass of wine.
George:
Job’s a good one. TtB half time.
Paul:
In one of the WhatsApp groups I’m in, they were talking about the fact that you can now get Guinness in the park end. Oh, wow. Which is apparently a major advancement. There you go. Things are looking up.
Paul:
Guinness in the park end. Wow.
George:
You’re suggesting you can’t get it in the Bullens’ Road End? No, you can’t. Why not?
Paul:
Well, it’s not in the Gwladys Street neither, so you see.
Andy:
He’s still on Higsons in the Gwladys Street, aren’t they?
Paul:
I think that I’ve got no idea. So long since I’ve been in there, I wouldn’t like to say what there is to drink there.
Andy:
Well, it’s not Chang any longer. It’s probably Kailin now. I don’t know probably is
Paul:
gosh. So yeah, fantastic resort, fantastic match, amazing atmosphere.
Andy:
Yeah.
Paul:
Uh, just everything that you should love about football condensed into 100 minutes or so.
Andy:
Yeah, exactly. It had just about everything, didn’t it? The only thing, well, just about the only thing I liked was a red card for them. That would have been the top.
George:
I knew that was coming.
Paul:
You know, we don’t often do this, but I think a shout out for the referee. I think he handled the game really well last night.
Andy:
And he didn’t have a bad game, did he?
Paul:
Yeah, I mean, it’s not it’s not often that, you know, we get the 50 -50s or we get the sometimes much greater than 50 -50s in a Derby match. But I thought he handled it really well. And Liverpool, actually, although we were physical, Liverpool with a team that fouled more than Everton last night.
Andy:
Oh yeah, double the amount of free kicks we had than they got, 13 ,000 to 6 I think it was.
Paul:
which is crazy from that perspective because surely
Andy:
They were rattled. Yeah, I mean, sure. They didn’t like it open.
Paul:
No, the one thing you don’t want to do against everything is give them a Dead ball situation.
Andy:
Yeah, and they fell for it big time.
George:
I think that’s what Klopp was giving the fourth referee all that earache for in the first half was that he thought we were just lying down in order to get free kicks and we’re getting him and that’s why he gave him all that earache.
Andy:
is an every fourth official.
George:
Well I would imagine the fourth official society would be going let’s buy Jürgen a really big present to say bye -bye. Gold ear plugs.
Andy:
Yes.
Paul:
He didn’t cover himself in much glory last night, did he?
Andy:
No, he kind of, I mean, he’s, you know, don’t like admitting it, but he’s had a tremendous record against Everton and it all kind of blew up in his face last night on the one night when he didn’t want it to blow up in his face.
And he didn’t have any, it’s like you said before, our kid said it, he didn’t adjust, he didn’t change tactics, he didn’t, he likely was one-dimensional last night. Now maybe he is tired, maybe he is, can’t wait till the end of the season and he can move on to pastures new, whatever those pastures might be.
But at the end of the day, you know, yeah tough, they weren’t good enough last night and we were, we got the job done and long may continue.
George:
Just to be very fair to him, I just watched a long interview with him and that’s what he ended up saying. We weren’t good enough against a team that was solid and passionate.
Andy:
Yeah.
Paul:
so fair play. We wanted it more last night.
Andy:
Exactly. That’s the difference. We want to.
George:
Well, that must be something else that Dyche will be going. Do not step down from this level. We’ve got to want it that much against Brentford and everybody else to the end of time.
Paul:
Yeah, exactly. To me, that’s… We should… I get what you’re saying, George, about the style of football. But if we produce that 38 times a season, there’d be an awful lot more happy Evertonians than there are now.
Andy:
Yeah. We’ve always said it, haven’t we? We want a team that works hard and plays hard and commits. And then if we can add some quality to the style of play, that would be the cherry on the cake. But the minimum has got to be 100% commitment.
Andy:
And last night we got 100% commitment right across the board.
Paul:
But it was focused commitment last night, it wasn’t the sort of, you know, the wild, let’s go out there first 15 minutes and kick lumps out of the opposition. I thought it was a really measured performance and I thought we were really disciplined.
As I said earlier, we had a game plan, we stuck to it and it was a game plan that Liverpool either didn’t expect or just found it impossible to compete against.
Andy:
Well, they failed to react to it, didn’t they? That’s their problem.
Paul:
Yeah, absolutely their problem and it really was probably the most comfortable Derby that I can
Andy:
Yeah, possibly, yeah.
Paul:
Never at any moment did I feel as if we were in any real danger of either conceding an equalizer or then going on to win the game. I just thought it was a question of whether we’d win 1 -0, 2 -0 or 3 -0.
Andy:
They would have been blessed, wouldn’t they?
Paul:
Well, if it hadn’t been for a marginal offside, which was an offside, it might have been, yeah.
Andy:
Yeah.
George:
Hoorah!
Paul:
Yeah, we’ve set the standards now and that’s given, you know, despite all of our problems, all of our issues and everything else that we’ve talked about ad nauseam, that’s a standard that we have to achieve every single week.
Andy:
Yeah, and this is the tone of the podcast we want to achieve every week as well. Happy and joyous and positive and looking forward to the next game. Can’t wait.
George:
Hoorah!
Paul:
So what more can we say?
George:
That’s it. Brilliant podcast. Well done.
Paul:
Yeah.
Andy:
I mean, it is nice to be doing one that’s really positive about the game on the field rather than the nonsense game off the field.
Paul:
Yeah, I mean, I don’t think there’s much point in going there today.
Andy:
Let’s not sully this podcast with any more of that. We can save it for another one.
Paul:
Yeah, I’m sure by Saturday there’ll be plenty more we can talk about in that respect. No, just fantastic and maybe we’re not practised enough in it, it’s quite difficult to talk about something that was so good.
George:
Just to go back to Branthwaite.
Andy:
Yeah.
George:
thinking in my role as Branthwaite’s new agent that if he stays for one more year with Pickford and Tarkovski, how old is he 20?
Paul:
It’s 21, isn’t it?
George:
I think he stays for one more year and doesn’t go chasing books or chasing European football. For one more season, he will learn everything he needs to learn. I think he’ll be, I mean, he’s very, very close to being the complete deal now.
But I think if he stays one more year with the best goalie in England and Tarkovsky, he’ll learn everything. That would be my advice to play. If you listen to Jarad…
Paul:
I mean, I don’t think we can keep him, but if we could keep him, for me, he’s Everton’s next captain. All that, yeah. There was an element of, and I’ve said previously that there’s an element of Franz Beckenbauer about him, but last night I thought there was an element of Brian Labone.
George:
He’s just so measured with his passing too. He’s really a class act.
Andy:
He doesn’t panic, he doesn’t rush, does he?
George:
Oh, he doesn’t.
Paul:
No, I mean, you’re right. You’re absolutely spot on, George. Bobby Moore would be thrown into the hat in terms of players that he reminds you of. But in terms of Evertonians, he came last night the closest to Brian Labone, and I think I can recall.
And that’s a big claim to make.
Andy:
Yeah.
Paul:
and a big responsibility to place on a young player’s shoulders. But he absolutely loved it last night, didn’t he? He just soaked it up and he just took control. And that was brilliant. Well, what did the degree by which that kid has developed over the last two years is just staggering.
Paul:
And if you think he can maintain that level of development and improvement and everything else in his game, where’s this kid going to be when he’s 23, 24, 25?
Andy:
He needs to be the player that we build around now in the way that we didn’t build around Rooney.
George:
Oh dear, this is going to get depressing.
Paul:
I mean, you’re absolutely right, Andy. It would be wonderful if that was the case. But frankly, I can’t see that happening.
George:
No, and we all know why. Well, you’re right. But but then, you know, everything’s been like that. We should have built around John Stone. We should have built around Lukaku. Yeah, in case I said we should have built a team that Rircharlison had to stay with.
George:
But we didn’t. We didn’t. We didn’t. We didn’t. We didn’t. And now we’re screwed for cash. And Paul is trying his hardest not to say we’ll have to sell him.
Paul:
It’s interesting with them.
Andy:
Well, I just think they should move heaven and earth not to sell him any.
George:
Couldn’t agree more, Andy, could not agree more, you know, it would be such a statement to all those people there last night.
Andy:
Yeah.
George:
this, the book stops, it stops, we stop, we’re not selling, but we have got no choice. It’s clear from all our penalty points and things, and the debt that we’re in, those kind of choices we simply don’t have.
Paul:
There’s been a lot of comparisons between him and John Stones, and we’ve made some comparisons. But again, last night, I was thinking that at this stage of his career, he looks a better player than John Stones was.
George:
I agree with that, but then, like I was saying to you the other day on this podcast, I think what Guardiola has started to do with John Stones is really, really interesting. He’s going to develop into an absolute powerhouse of a midfield player.
Paul:
But you can see that already in Branthwaite if that’s what you want to.
George:
If you see, I think Godfrey should be being suggested that you move his strengths, which, you know, though he was marvellous last night, I wasted it right back. I think he should be pushed forward.
Andy:
Don’t worry.
George:
Yeah, I do. But then you’d need an absolutely secure back four behind him to allow yourself the freedom to see whether the strength he’s got, but particularly his pace. I think DCL said that Ben Godfrey is the fastest sprinter in the club.
George:
And when he stretches his legs and goes forward, you’re not going to catch him.
Paul:
I think he’s definitely the best athlete, George, in the club.
George:
I think so. But, you know, anyway, we’ll see his score against Brentwood on Saturday. So.
Paul:
I hope he writes. It was fantastic, the block that he made.
Andy:
Yeah, early on to deny Dias.
Paul:
Yeah, from, what’s his name, Salah. It was fantastic. Yeah, .
Andy:
Well I mean the other thing I mean you would think you would imagine he’s going to start against Brentford because if if Mykolenko is hurt then they’ll play young at left back. Yeah. So that leaves the right back position open for Godfrey so Godfrey Tarkovsky Branthwaite with Young across the back four if Micalenko’s not available.
And it would probably be sensible given the twist of his ankle that he took to rest Mykolenko, let him recover and if necessary have him available for Luton in a week on Friday. But I thought he had it, I thought Mykolenko deserved a lot of praise last night because once again he had Salah in his pocket.
I mean I know Salah’s had it, even Liverpool fans are saying he’s gone off the boil a bit recently but he’s still a very poor player and last night he never had a kick and he didn’t have a kick against Ashley Young as well.
Fair play to both of those boys at left back.
George:
My favourite bit of the whole match was Young breaking out of defence in the second half. Running 30 -40 yards with the ball, playing it out wide to Jack Harrison on the right. And then scuttling back.
George:
I watched him run away and said what Harrison was doing with the ball. I don’t know.
Andy:
Well, that was the move that Harrison played inside to McNeil that led to the goal because it was his shot that Alex turned over for the corner.
George:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Andy:
That DCL’s goal stemmed from Ashley Young’s rush of blood.
Paul:
I think Harrison’s quite rightly coming for quite a bit of stick, hasn’t he? And the season’s not quite worked out for him, as we all might have hoped, and certainly as he might have hoped.
Andy:
That was his best game in a blue shirt last night.
Paul:
just the words out of my mouth Andy, that was his best game without doubt. And I told him, you know, I mean there wasn’t a poor Everton player on the pitch last night, McNeil had a fantastic game as well.
Paul:
Yeah, as we say, that’s the level that each individually now has to perform week in week out and collectively. And
George:
Do you think that Everton will try and keep Harrison?
Paul:
I know there’s been some discussions between Everson and Leeds about a permanent transfer. It’s going to depend on our finances. I think there’s a desire to keep him and I don’t think Leeds would stand in his way if Everson could afford to buy him on a permanent transfer but it is going to depend on our finances.
George:
I was thinking the other day, I can’t, I can never work this out even when, you know, when I used to play the game. How much more does Gueye weigh than Jack Harrison? And he certainly weighs less than everybody else in the team, Idrissa Ghana Gueye.
George:
But if you had a 50-50 with every single member of our squad and IGG, I would expect him to win 90% of those 50-50s. And it can’t be on body strength because, you know, he’s weighed that much. It’s all on timing and wear, isn’t it?
Paul:
And he’s got a very low centre of gravity as well.
George:
Well, so is Jack Harrison, and it’s an unfair comparison to make, because on the board, they cut their chalk and cheese, because Harrison does not withstand a challenge, and Idrissa Carnegie can’t wait for you to try and challenge him, because you’re not going to get it.
George:
It’s fascinating, you know, the physics of the two men are quite similar, and what they can do, just in that single area of football, tackling, could not be more different.
Paul:
It’d be a really interesting study actually to see what the average weight of football is today compared to say, 20 -30 years ago. I was always staggered by Tim Cahill, who’s like, you know, sort of fighting weight was around about like 66 to 67 kilos.
And when you think of the physicality of that guy and the strength and the ability to jump and how he would often, you know, muscle people probably 20 kilos heavier than him. It’s quite amazing.
And I mean, he’s obviously a very different player and he doesn’t really ever jump on him, but he’s the same type of player, isn’t he, in the sense that he’s light, but he’s incredibly strong.
Andy:
It’s down to core strength.
George:
Yeah. And belief, you know, he got every reason to believe, well, 50 -50, that’s mine then. Whereas you sense, and quite right, because of the way he is, that Jack Harrison thinks the exact opposite.
And, you know, as you said earlier, Paul, you know, he’s not had a great season, but he certainly had a very, very effective match last night. It was really good to see, and he obviously enjoyed himself too.
George:
That’s always lovely to see.
Paul:
You can’t have been an Evertonian or an Everton player you didn’t enjoy last night.
Andy:
Yeah but that’s Dyche’s reference Seamus Coleman after the game didn’t he?
Paul:
in a more sense and
Andy:
in Coleman and shouted himself horse. And, you know, he said, you know, everybody, everybody deserves that tonight, including Seamus, who’s been here a long time, and he’s, he’s a massive part of this club.
Andy:
And, you know, Coleman had obviously kicked every ball and sat on the bench, you know, not taking part in a game, but from what Dyche said, you know, he’d literally run himself into the ground, sat in his chair.
Paul:
I’m sure there’s lots of other supporters of other football clubs who would make the same claim about their football club, but there is something special about Everton. There’s something special about, I don’t know if it’s the club, the shirt, if it’s the fans, it’s the location, it’s the city, it’s probably a number of different factors, history, not so much expectation, not so much these days, but there is something extraordinarily special about our football club, along those rare occasions where it all comes together.
I suppose it was quite fitting that, was it last night that it was the anniversary of the Bayern Match?
Andy:
Yeah, Bayern Munich.
Paul:
39 years previously and I was at that game.
Andy:
Me too. Back at the Bullens Road.
Paul:
I was on the left -hand side of Lower Gwladys Street, about six steps back from the front.
Andy:
I was halfway lined back on the Bullens Road upper deck. Fantastic night.
Paul:
Yeah. I wonder what the noise levels were last night compared to that night.
Andy:
Thank you.
Paul:
I’m…
Andy:
I mean, you’ve got to bear in mind what the crowd was last night, just over 38,000. 39,000. It was 50,000. 49,000 against Bayern Munich, so 10,000 lesst, but I mean, the atmosphere was probably comparable.
Certainly the hunger and desire for the victory was absolutely equitable with the Bayern Munich night.
Paul:
Yeah, I’m going to finish my bit anyway, given how special the club is and how special nights like last night were, or are, and hopefully still will be, even in the short time that we’ve still got left at Goodison Park, the players last night took on board the responsibility and Sean Dyche took on board that responsibility to present and play a game of football that was sort of commensurate with those qualities that Evertonians demand.
The big question going forward is not only can the players do it, not only can Sean Dyche continue to do it, but as people who run the football club, they need today to be looking at themselves and not congratulating themselves on what they did last night.
But they need to be asking themselves, why can’t every night at Goodison or every game at Goodison be like last night? Because that’s where we have to aim for, that’s what we have to achieve when we go to Bramley Moore and whoever our new owners are going forward, that has to be the objective.
We can’t allow ourselves to sit back and just sit back in the glory of an isolated game like the game last night because of its importance in terms of the local rivalry, the fact that it was Liverpool.
Strip out all of that, it was just a game of football and it was just a regular Premier League game and we performed magnificently and the whole thing was fantastic as we and many others have been describing in the last 24 hours.
But that’s really what it has to be every time and it’s not just down to Dyche, it’s not down just down to Thelwell or it’s not just down to the 11-15 players however many appeared on the pictures.
It’s down to the people who run and own the Football Club to give us the opportunity to have that week in week out.
George:
Come here, here.
Paul:
And we shouldn’t, we shouldn’t rest until that is the case.
Andy:
Yeah.
Paul:
I’m not presenting Manchester City as the paragons of virtue by any sense, and obviously they’ve got virtually unlimited resources. But the one thing they did with the money that they’ve been allowed to spend is that they decided that it had to become a centre of excellence.
Paul:
And even though that is the case and it’s a fantastic team and they have a fantastic manager, I doubt the Manchester City supporter experience is any better for them than the experience was for Evertonians last night.
George:
Well, I think I have to disagree with that because of course, what they get that we don’t get is this stuff it up United year in year out. That’s a joy that has no end.
Paul:
that aside you know the point I’m making
George:
I do. Yeah. Of course I do.
Paul:
And that’s what we have to aim for. And that’s what we have to strive for. And yes, we have to enjoy this moment. And we will enjoy it for a few days, a couple of days before the Brentford game.
And certainly everybody who lives on, lives on Mersey’s side will enjoy it for weeks and weeks and weeks, when they’re talking to their red mates or their red members of their families, etc. But this doesn’t, this can’t just be a thing in isolation.
It has, this has to be what we strive for week in week out. And that’s, and that’s the challenge to, currently, Farhad, who’s never going to meet this challenge. But that is the challenge. And then the people, whoever the people are, that come in after us, after him.
Andy:
last night was the foundation for the new owners to build on and that needs to be put to them by somebody as and when somebody signs on the dotted line to become the new owner.
Paul:
I would challenge it to foundation. I agree, I agree with the sentiment Aandy. I would say to anybody coming into Everton Football Club, that was the real Everton Football Club. All of the other rubbish that we’ve seen before and might see again is not the real Everton.
Last night was the real Everton and that’s what we have to work towards and that’s what we have to achieve and we have to achieve regularly and we have to go, actually we have to go beyond last night in order to be a success.
George:
now.
Paul:
And I get what you’re saying about it being the foundation. Yes, we can use that as a starting point for our recovery. Totally get that. But that’s what’s needed. And none of us should be satisfied until we see that type of game.
Paul:
We can make out from my perspective. I can’t talk for everybody else, obviously. Can’t wait.
George:
Thank you.
Paul:
And one final point, Ashley Young, how old was Ashley Young the last time Everton beat Liverpool?
Andy:

Paul:
I asked my son and he said 37 but yeah you probably you probably would have been
Andy:
Actually, it would be younger than that because it was 14 years. It would be 23. 10, wouldn’t it? So 14 years, he’s 38. Yeah, he’d be 23.
Paul:
23 or 24.
Andy:
23, 24, yeah.
Paul:
and
George:
Let’s hope he’s not.

Paul:
Let’s hope he’s not 51 before the next one.
Andy:
He’s not 51 and still playing. No, sorry, Ash. You did well last night, pal. Okay, guys.
Paul:
Yes, wonderful, great stuff, because we’re not responsible for anything, it’s all to do with the performance against Brentford, we can carry on.
Andy: We did predict last night. We did. We all said we’d win. What we didn’t get was the old van Dyck’s arse, which really would have put the cherry on the cake.
Paul:
Well, I think, given his performance, that’s nice, he would have missed it.
George:
Oh
Paul:
Anyway, all we can do now is watch what happens on Saturday against Brentford and in the meantime just enjoy it.
Andy:
Yeah, you’re the winner.
Paul:
It’s George and Andy, it’s been great, great fun today. Pleasure. Yeah, what can I say? Thanks very much, everybody, for listening and yeah, we’ll talk after Brentford.
Cheers guys, thank you.
Andy:
Cheers.