Welcome to the transcript of the latest Talking the Blues Podcast

Paul: Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, depending on where in the world you are, and what time of the day you’re listening to this episode of Talking the Blues. Heads up for everybody in our confession, this is a take two, because we did start yesterday, pretty soon after the game, and then unfortunately we had to stop, not because we were going nuts or anything. 

George: Bleep machine wore out. 

Paul: But George’s doctor wouldn’t allow him to continue. So we reconvened on Sunday afternoon. So here we are. George, just before you joined, I was asking Andy whether you felt any less riled, having had sort of maybe the best part of 18 hours or so to think about what happened yesterday, and I’m going to throw that question at you. 

George:  And to be honest with you, Paul, I went for a walk to think, you know, what do you really think? And I found I was angry. I’m angry that we’re right back where we were. It feels like no progress has been made.

And I’m going to lay the blame for this for that yesterday squarely on Sean Dyche’s shoulders. When the teams were announced an hour before the kickoff, my heart just sank completely. And nothing that happened listed it at all. 

And I think the best way to sum it up would be to say that a possibility to go with youth, and you chose to go with the old guard. You could have picked Jake O ‘Brien, but you picked Michael Kean. You could have dropped Doucoure and put Nyadia in from the start, and you didn’t. 

You could have. And you would have been wrong too, because Harrison and a cracking game have started lump with whatever his name is. And he didn’t. He didn’t do any of those things. So we took the field with at least I’m going to be really cruel, but I don’t care because I am angry. 

I am furious about yesterday. We took the field with three players who wouldn’t get a pick for any of the Premier League teams, and probably not many Championship teams either, against the Brighton side who, you know, played it absolutely perfectly, wait forever, and to burst their bubble score. 

That’ll be the end of that, because they’re not going to score. It was horrible. But the fundamental thing was, you had a choice between the old guard and a newer one. And he went with the old guard, and guess what happened? 

Exactly what happened with the old guard over the past three seasons. I feel, and it pains me to say this, but, you know, he’s getting plenty of cushion. I think Doucoure’s best days are behind him. 

I don’t think he’s a threat to that level of players. So the same is true with Keane. It’s obviously true of Ashley Young. And here we are one week into the season. No right back. Holgate probably starting next week. 

The whole thing is a beep nightmare. 

Paul: I don’t think there’s anything to argue against there, George. 

Andy: No. 

Paul: Andy, what were your thoughts? 

Andy: My first thought was this morning actually when after having had a lie-in I decided to go to the gym and when I go to the gym I always wear an Everton top and when I was putting it on before I was going to the gym I thought to myself I really need to get a different top because people are just going to laugh when I walk in the gym wearing this Everton shirt again. 

Thankfully the usual gang of guys who were in the gym who were mostly United fans it asked me to just kind of nodded alone and that was it there was no there was no Mickey taking or anything like that they probably felt sorry for me because I felt sorry for myself because as our kids said yesterday after the after the first 10 minutes or so you know I mean well I said it after the game I thought McNeil isn’t 100% yet and so it proved with the chance to be at the post with had that gone in it might have been a different a different kettle of fish altogether but I think that was symptomatic of the fact that we’re not at the races yet and after a pre -season we should be at the races I don’t I don’t hold, I don’t hold any truck with that well it takes a couple of weeks to get to the pace of the game they’ve had a couple of weeks of pre-season they should have been ready to play that game and play 100%.

And they weren’t and McNeil’s miss when it came back off the post was poor and and I think that once once Brighton weathered that and realised that there wasn’t a great deal coming from Everton they decided to take the game by the scuff of the neck and they did so and 3 -0 flattered us when they had the fourth goal disallowed four would probably have been a better reflection of the 90 minutes because they were head and shoulders better than us in just about every department and our kids right I’ve tended to like Michael Keane but to start Keane over O ‘Brien when O ‘Brien’s played the pre -season um seeing odd um what can you say about Ashley Young at right back you just know that sooner or later he’s going to get skinned and he’s going to pick up a yellow card this time he decided not to get skinned he decided to make a complete town hall of what should have been a comfortable headed clearance and then picked up a straight red.

I mean that that was a schoolboy error from a 30 what is he 38, 39? a schoolboy error from a 39 year old I mean good god I mean and yet bizarrely on the other side you’ve got James Milner who’s actually older than him but Milner didn’t look out of place in that Brighton side and that Brighton side had pace and I thought the centre back the Van Hecke I thought he was excellent uh me told me you know he’s going to get his is dangerous well back is he’s not a prolific goal scorer but he’s an accomplished goal scorer and he’s another one who’s always had a tendency to score goals against Everton um which most people seem to enjoy doing in recent years but uh you can’t give you can’t give the likes of Welbeck with his experience uh the kind of space that he I mean he must have thought he was like like Moses in the opening and the passing of the waves and the Red Sea when when he scored the second goal…..

It was embarrassing and and ultimately that’s that’s that’s the feeling I felt this morning when I was getting ready to go to the gym I felt embarrassed putting on an Everton shirt and I’ve never felt embarrassed putting an Everton shirt but what I did this morning because it was horrendous absolutely horrendous and and no wonder people were leaving in in droves you know before and and and I thought I’m full I’m jumping a gun here but I thought the Premier League rule changes this year one of them was to eliminate unnecessary added on time well surely we can have some common sense at three nil down and having three nil down and not having made their goal he made a save that I can remember some goon decides to play an extra nine minutes when there’s practically nobody in the stadium what on earth you know is there no common sense in the game of football like surely the referee because he’s in contact with the fourth official to say nine minutes are you in a laugh there’s no there’s more chance of platting fog than Everton scoring three goals and getting a point in nine minutes I’m the referee I’ll decide when I’ve had enough and you should have blown up after three minutes and said that’s it fellas after the dressing room you know nine nine minutes in a game that’s that was over and done with long before is nonsensical well that’s you know we’re on we’re on about the product there with the Premier League not not just what we witnessed with Everton but Everton were very very very very poor yesterday

…. and I agree entirely with our kid that Sean Dyche got it wrong by plumping for the old guard instead of saying to the younger hungrier guys go on fellas get out there and enjoy yourself sunshine in full house big crowd get into it get stuck in and he didn’t and we got what we deserved which was sod all 

Paul: Yeah, I thought it was an extraordinary day because we know that the club is in a really difficult position and we know that we haven’t been able to necessarily recruit the number of people that we wanted to recruit, although to be fair the recruitment that we have done has been good and those players have showed well in preseason. 

It was the last opening, I mean everybody knows this, but I think it’s worth saying it was the last opening game of the season at Goodison. So it was a big event, it was an emotional day, it was a day that before the game at least was full of goodwill towards Everton, towards Everton’s players and probably also to Dyche as well, and I’m going to talk about Dyche in a few minutes, but it seems like nobody read the script and what Dyche prepared might have been what he might have prepared on a Wednesday in February for a mid -table game that had no consequence to anybody. 

I think yesterday was a significant day for so many reasons, not only from the point of view that it was the final opening game and I think it’s going to be a really difficult season for many reasons and one of the big difficulties is this in a sense almost emotional distraction of it being the last season at Goodison. 

In a sense we almost need to park that until we’ve got Andy 40 points and then perhaps we can enjoy the rest of the season because I feel as if perhaps maybe it’s taking some of the focus away from actually what we need to do and what actually we need to do here is ensure that we stay in the division in the first instance and people will say well that’s ridiculous first game of the season okay we lost and you know we’ve lost first game of the season is it three seasons on the run now um if my memory is right and it might not be but I think it is, you know 37 games to go don’t don’t be so reactionary whatever but it is to me we just completely if if the script had been prepared then we failed to deliver that script 

Andy: No. 

Paul: My concern is is that the script wasn’t adequately prepared that there wasn’t the preparation I mean there must have been a preparation because they’ve spent however many weeks they’ve spent in preseason so you know physically they must have been ready tactically they should have been ready um he must have known that there was a chance that we were not necessarily going to have our first 11 available just by nature 

You know the nature of the modern game that injuries are prevalent across the game so you need to have a bigger squad and you need when you’re preparing you need to prepare for the eventuality that you’re not going to have necessarily the players that you want but it just failed to deliver on on every count and not only in the game but after the game and I’ll talk about that in a few minutes but it there’s something wrong about the preparation of Everton Football Club incoming into the season you know this idea that we can’t play players who don’t have Premier League experience when they’ve showed showed well in pre-season games okay preseason games very different from obviously competitive games but players have played well or what sort of messages that give them if you if you see them playing well and then you take them out of the team and you put people into the team like Keane for example who even their biggest even Keane’s biggest fan would would acknowledge he has a questionable record as a Premier League footballer might be a nice guy might be a dedicated professional but is he good enough and has he proven himself to be good enough for for a number of years no is the answer to that 

George: He was good into it. 

Andy: He was good enough when he first arrived, but he’s gone downhill. 

Paul: Yeah. Yeah. But we have to deal with what he is today, not what he was five, six years ago, or however long it was since. 

Andy: But that’s what Sean Dyche clearly hasn’t dealt with, he’s known him from his burny days, he obviously trusts him, he obviously likes him and he’s probably felt his experience over the inexperience of O ‘Brien in the absence of Brantway was the right thing and it proved to be, we can’t say it proved to be the wrong thing because we don’t know what would have happened O ‘Brien been there but we can certainly say that it was not proven to be the correct analysis or the correct thing to do on the day because it failed and if he does the same at Tottenham next week then well we could probably look forward if that’s the right phrase to a similar eventuality 

Paul: You see, for me, I think, and this is not undoing all the good work that Dyche done in keeping us in the division, you know, in the Premier League. 

 Andy: No but that’s history Paul, we can’t keep banging on about that, that’s done and dusted and out of the way, we’re now in a new season, a new campaign and we’ve got off to the worst start imaginable. 

Paul: Exactly. And that was, in a sense, that was the point I was going to make. Dyche, to me, appears to be like a musician, an artist, a band that wrote a load of good hits at some point in the past. 

I’ve got a great sort of catalogue of, you know, things that people used to enjoy, but they’re not written anything good for years. And so when you go and see them in a concert, and not somebody that goes to concerts, but when you go and see them in a concert, all they do is play in their back catalogue. 

It doesn’t seem to be from Dyche an ability to advance the squad to, as we’ve said in the past, I think he has got a bit of a record in terms of being able to develop certain players. But he doesn’t develop squads, he doesn’t develop a style of play, he doesn’t make a team, I think we said this last week, he doesn’t make a team a better team. 

And his tactics haven’t evolved over a period. And I just think if you contrast Dyche’s Everton yesterday, and it’s not just Dyche’s Everton, it’s Moshiri’s Everton, obviously. With that of Brighton, there’s a club that’s going forwards, a very young manager. 

Was he 31 years old? Almost carefree. He has an approach to playing football, you’re going to play from the back, which looks dangerous at times. And I think better teams than Everton are going to, I think Brighton are going to lose a number of games very heavily this season if they continue to play the way that they played yesterday. 

But obviously, Everton don’t have the ability to score or convert chances made out of mistakes from Brighton. Because in fact, both teams made a lot of mistakes, didn’t they, defensively. But nevertheless, he’s got a philosophy, he’s got an approach. 

And it took a little while for them to bed in, you know, the first 15 minutes or so, Everton looked the better side, even if it didn’t necessarily look very dangerous. But once they realised that actually, there’s a game here for the taking, they just, in a sense, they almost waited for Everton to make mistakes, and they drew Everton out. 

And, you know, there’s a team, there’s a manager, there’s a club that appears to be going in absolutely the right direction against Everton, who appear in almost everything that they do currently, and for quite some time in the past. 

To be going in absolutely the wrong direction. And I know some people would say it’s just, you know, you’re just being too negative and everything else. But to me, the writing is on the wall. You know, we are, we’re in a terrible position financially, we have no leadership or direction from the owner, from the board of directors. 

And for the first time, I’m beginning to think about Sean Dyche, is that all he can do is, just to use the analogy I used a few minutes here, is play his back catalogue. He doesn’t have a tune that goes forward, modern football. 

He’s stuck somewhere in the past. And, you know, I’d say this idea, maybe I’m repeating myself, this idea that you can’t play young players or players without Premier League experience. You have to revert back to what he sees as a low risk strategy. 

Well, it didn’t look very low risk yesterday, did it? Because we were massively uncompetitive. In every sense, we didn’t look fit. We didn’t look well prepared. We didn’t look tactically as if we had an idea as to how to play differently from the style in which, you know, almost everybody now knows what will happen. 

But I wasn’t either. It’s a big hoof from Pickford in the hopes that DCL will get on. There’s someone who can, maybe Doucoure, who was a bit more advanced would be able to pick up. But Doucoure was very, very poor yesterday. 

And or it’s the long diagonal ball out to Harrison on the right hand side. And he being predominantly left footed then has to cut in in order to, you know, advance the ball. And then when he does, I mean, I don’t think O ‘Neill featured at all really in the game yesterday. 

Obviously, you missed that chance that you referred to earlier, Andy. You know, the quality of the ball into the box is not good. And our ability to convert even if the ball does end up in the box is even worse. 

So it’s not a very, I’m not sure what the word is. It’s not a position that sort of gives you a great deal of confidence moving forwards because if we couldn’t deliver yesterday with everything that was going for us, how can we deliver in games when almost inevitably the pressure is going to build? 

Sorry, that was a bit of a long rant, but it wasn’t a rant, it was just a series of comments. Yeah, yeah, but just to me, it’s just just indicative of, of the whole club. I know. I was actually I didn’t I didn’t do last night, but this morning, I was I was looking at what Sir John Moores said, when, when talking about the Everton crowd, and you know, it’s a quote that now everybody’s very familiar with. 

But they expect success. We have a very good crowd and our crowd is very loyal. But of course, they pay money and they expect to see us do well. If we don’t do well, then something should be done about it. 

And something will be done about it. Now, he knew his audience. And he was prepared to make the changes. And okay, probably, at that time, on a relative basis, he had the resources to make the changes that he did make. 

And he, you know, clearly achieved what he set out to achieve for the football club. We’re in a very different position now, obviously, with Moshiri. But if you contrast that with what Dyche said, after the game, when he was asked about the number of people, and I’m going to refer back to this in second, the number of people that left the game early. 

And Sean Dyche on talking about empty seats at Goodison said a direct quote, it feels like reality at this football club. If you’re not doing well, and you’re not winning, that’s what happens. Okay, he’s the manager, he’s not the owner. 

But the contrast, but he’s the only, well, he’s the only person that speaks on behalf of the club because nobody else does, which is to his credit, and shouldn’t necessarily always be the case. But the contrast between the two is quite staggering from my perspective. 

And I think this is where it starts to get very dangerous for us as a club. Because clearly Dyche is not is unlikely to lose his job anytime in the near future. And, you know, if things go horribly wrong, first third of the season, then, you know, maybe Moshiri, assuming that the club’s not sold, and they don’t think it will be, then maybe Moshirii will, you know, panic like he has done in the past and try and force a change. 

But if we think that Dyche is going to be here, and probably is likely to be here for the whole season, and therefore probably likely to be here for when we actually move into into Bramley Moore, to not acknowledge that we massively underperformed that he perhaps himself massively underperformed in preparing the team for for yesterday’s game. 

And the crowd have every right to behave in a manner in which it did, which is, you know, leave the game early. Why did they leave the game early? Because frankly, they’re fed up seeing what they’re seeing. 

And they’re fed up with these types of results. And yes, it is our last season at Goodison, and we all love the place and everything else. But that doesn’t mean to say everybody has to sit in their seats and watch us get destroyed by a team like Brighton. 

And I don’t mean that with any disrespect to Brighton. But we have, as John Moores says, an expectation of success. And maybe even if that expectation is weakened today and reduced, and is obviously given that we know what our position is competitively, less likely to be achieved. 

It still means that we compete in every single game. And even if we do lose at home or we lose away or wherever, Evertonians walk out of the ground feeling proud of their team, saying it was a good game, OK, Brighton played better than us. 

But our guys gave everything that they possibly could. The manager did everything he could do. He made the right changes for substitutions. He made the right tactical changes during the game. And the players on the pitch gave their role. 

The players on the pitch showed leadership, but it just wasn’t enough on the day. That’s what we expect. And because we didn’t get that, people left early and nobody should criticise them, and least of all the manager, for doing that. 

And I’ll stop in a second, sorry. What it demonstrates to me is that Dyche doesn’t have a connection. I don’t think Dyche has a genuine connection with the fan base. I think the fan base are very grateful, and I am very grateful for what he’s done in terms of ensuring that we haven’t fallen out of the Premier League. 

But I don’t think there’s any greater fantasy between us as Evertonians, or I can only speak for myself, OK? There’s no greater fan connection between me as an Evertonian and I acknowledge I’m not match -going Evertonian or don’t-go-frequently. 

And Sean Dyche, because he doesn’t… To me, he hasn’t made the effort to build the bridges with the crowd that he needs to. And when it gets difficult, and when it’s a difficult day like yesterday, he either says nonsensical things which don’t really match what we’ve just seen, or he tries to find something other than himself and his players to blame. 

Now, I don’t know if that’s massively unfair, but that’s how I’m feeling today. 

Andy: Yeah um i’m not sure i’m not sure about in not having a connection with the fans ball um you might be right on that i don’t know i mean obviously he’s not he’s not a you know he’s i was going to say he’s not a scouser but neither am i so um i’m not sure about about the connection with the fans but i think you’re right on just about everything else you’ve said that he he is the he’s the only person fronting the club at the moment and it seems like maybe maybe his workload um is too much.

Ii mean you said it yourself nobody else um speaks on behalf of the club it’s and it has been for 12 months or more now everything comes through sean dutch now he’s he’s he’s managing with if we’re brutally honest a sub -bar group of players um and he’s not I don’t think he’s getting anything from above he’s probably obviously he’s he’s he’s but elsewhere within the hierarchy of the club um he’s not getting anything……

 and just we’re gonna have to pause this our kids dropped off he’s just been on the long line 

Paul: Right, everybody. Well, welcome back to Talking the Blues. Sorry, this, if you’re listening to this podcast, are you reading the transcript? What I’m about to say now might not necessarily follow from what I just said for about 30 minutes before. 

And George had a few difficulties with communications. They’ve been rectified now, but George doesn’t know what we’ve just been talking about. So, in summary, George, we were talking about Dyche’s relationship with the fans, comparing what John Moores had said about the fans. 

We have a very good crowd, we expect success and the fans have every right to effectively complain when they don’t get success. But if we don’t succeed, I will do something about it. And we were comparing that, or I was comparing that with what Dyche said immediately after the game yesterday, when he effectively was sort of was saying, well, the fact that there’s nobody left in the ground at the end of the game. 

Well, that’s just the type of crowd that we’ve got here at Goodison. And it was slightly dismissive, slightly defensive. And I was saying that I think perhaps whilst we’re all very grateful for what Dyche’s has done to this point, and I think the three of us have been big supporters of Dyche’s. 

And I know you, George, in particular, have been very grateful for what he’s done. That there isn’t necessarily the relationship and the affinity between Dyche and the wider fan base that I think permits him to say what he’s just said, or what he said yesterday. 

And that there is a danger that if we don’t see the type of progress that we’re hoping to see, and if we continue to see the Dyche of old, which we saw yesterday, that this relationship might break down. 

Because there isn’t that sort of, I don’t think there’s a huge element of goodwill, even if there’s an element of gratitude. 

George: Why not? Why do you think there’s no, how would you identify that there isn’t good will? That’s a very strong comment from him, surprising really, but he must have taken it very personally. 

Paul: Yeah, I mean, I think from the point of view that it’s getting increasingly frustrating for Evertonians. And he’s really the only match going, Evertonian amongst us here, the three of us and to constantly see Everton performing in the manner in which he’s performing. 

And like I was saying earlier, I’m sorry for people listening to this just to repeat it very briefly. You know, yesterday was a big, big occasion. First game of the season in the last season that got us. 

And we, you know, we’ve done a bit of transfer business, which was well received at the beginning of the window and then not to see those players necessarily being picked or not all of them. And for the old guard to be back, the people who have failed us or failed to deliver adequately in the past to see that sort of safety first type of approach from Dutch and then the lack of ability to change the direction of a game, 

change the tactics to use the same tactics that is used consistently in this period here. The, you know, the use of Pickford’s long-ball, the diagonal ball to the right wing for Harrison, et cetera, et cetera. 

That it’s no great surprise that so many people left before the end of the game, despite the fact that we are now in our final season at Goodison. And the question, I suppose, is is that relationship a bit broken or was it just a reflection of the disappointment of the day yesterday? 

And if indeed the relationship is a bit broken, what can be done to fix it? Both from Dyche’s point of view, but also from the point of view of the club. And Andy quite correctly was saying. 

Andy: Yeah, I think it’s what I think that might be might be weighing on him You know more than more than we imagine because No You know you you said it Paul, you know, we we don’t hear anything from machete um The only thing we hear from Colin Chong as the interim ceo is about Bramley-Moore and quite frankly um And and people are going to people will probably react to this i’m not interested in Bramley-Moore at the moment I’m really not that the more the most important thing at the moment is getting through the season that only began yesterday And on the evidence of what we saw yesterday, 

it’s going to be another long hard struggle And we’ve just spent three years of that nonsense And it’s become very very tiresome now with nothing from Moshiri. We don’t even know who John Spellman is the other member of the board And and a ceo who is concentrating on the new stadium. Who else is there to talk to communicate with the fans? 

Let’s not talk about the director of communications Because he never says anything and certainly never says anything of any worth. So who else is that only? Kevin Thelwell as the director of football Or Sean Dyche as the manager and clearly um Whether it’s been delegated to him or whether he’s Stepped up to take it all on his own shoulders Dyche is the only person from Everton football club who’s communicated and I think he’s got enough on his plate With if we’re brutally honest a sub-par squad Um with some new blood who he hasn’t yet tried other than in pre -season Uh, 

and he’s already behind the eight ball after a three-nil shellacking by by Brighton so Whether there’s whether there’s not the natural affinity with the crowd that should we say Moyes had for many years and that martin has had certainly in his first year um I don’t Maybe there isn’t that affinity, but I think the guy is carrying more of a load He’s probably carrying the biggest workload or or the heaviest workload. 

Maybe not the biggest but certainly the heaviest workload Since Moyes is there because Moyes was Moyes in effect was Everton football club. He just had a chairman who loved him And who supported him? 

And I think, you know, we don’t, we don’t know with. 

Whether the Dyche has even got that, we don’t know whether he communicates with them. 

with Moshiri, the owner. We don’t know anything like, we don’t know anything of the relationship or partnerships within the club. All we know is that Sean Dyche is the manager of a football club and if you want anything out of a football club, inevitably comes out of his mouth. 

George: Well, he must have been bitter yesterday, you know, I mean, I was kind of in the same profession, really, when you get to the end of a play and after the audience is left, that’s as bad as it can get. 

Andy: Yeah. 

George: And you don’t feel very chirpy at all. And you might well lash out and go, well, not good then. But people looking at it objectively, as I’m afraid I was from 2 -0 and the red card onwards, you couldn’t blame anybody with a blue and white scarf around the neck for going, I don’t want to watch the end of this, especially when they put the nine -minute thing up. 

So I would write that off to a bad day at the office as regards his PR comments. And the only way that he can rebuild it is to be a little bit bolder and try and play some footy. Because yesterday was ghastly. 

I don’t know why they bought and died if we’re going to play Lumstoem up to two at the front. And the whole thing is baffling to me again. I’m back to being baffled, as well as the fact that we’ve got a squad with four or five people who should not be in it. 

Andy: Mhmm. 

George: You know, and maybe this is back to Moshiri and overpaying wages. So why should they go? Because they can just sit it out like Tosun did. And, you know, and who can blame them? It’s a very short career that can end with one bad tackle. 

Andy: no one at the end of the day 

The club negotiates the contracts with the agents and whatnot. Probably, you don’t imagine, or maybe not. Maybe the players are demanding huge money and the club has caved in and given it to them. 

George: Well, you know, that’s one more thing, isn’t it? You just don’t know because nobody’s going to tell you because it’s Everton. 

Andy: Mmm. 

Paul: Although I think, I think it’s becoming more and more well, I mean, I think it’s been obvious to us and people have listened to us as to the condition of the club. But it’s much less of an open secret now, you know, even Dyche himself is talking about the financial restraints within the club or constraints within the club. 

And I suppose there’s two ways of looking at that. You know, he’s just being honest, which is good. Or, you know, is he using that as a justification for where he’s at and where the squad is at? 

Because although the squad is not what we want it to be, I think we can all reasonably expect it to be prepared for the beginning of the season. And the evidence yesterday was that perhaps it’s not quite as well, well, certainly it was not as well prepared as Brighton, for example. 

And it probably would have been many other teams had we not chosen, had we not played Brighton, we would have ended up in similar circumstances. 

George: I think you can only assume that’s truthful. You know, that was the most depressing thing. It might have been playing like that since Potter got older. And they’ve swapped managers three times, and they’re still playing like that. 

Because that’s what they figured out, and they agree. This is the best way to play football. Keep the passes short. Therefore, there’s less chance of losing the ball. And be very, very patient. And they can all play. 

And football’s a really simple game. Trap it, look up, watch me option, pass it. Move, make a new option. And Everton are playing massive long balls, some of which, out to Harrison yesterday, were really, really good. 

Some of which, Pickford’s aimless hoop for the first goal, just belt it up there, somebody will get hold of it. Yeah, they did. It was called the Brighton winger. And four passes later, it was in the back of the net. 

You know, their style of play is admirable. Ours is makeshift. And that’s why I’m confused about Ndiaye. I’m confused about Lindstrom. This new boy in midfield is a real find. But yesterday, you know, bless his heart, his head went right down after he made the mistake that led to the third goal. 

And he should have been hooked. But if he had been hooked, who would you put on? Yeah. It’s, you know. And I looked at the squad yesterday and there’s a 17-year-old defender. I’ve forgotten his name. 

George: Harris, no. 

Andy: Harrison. 

George: Yeah, Harrison and a 19 year old attacker, you assume they’re not going to get on the pitch and sure enough they don’t, but, you know, he’s just, I don’t know, I’m terribly afraid that next week we’ll see five across the back, four across the middle of DCL running around like I better run around like an even less competent head of chicken and hope we get a point and really, I play three at the back, 

I put O ‘Brien in if Branthwaite is not here, and I also got to the point, I so cross this one, I got to the point where you’re thinking, really pragmatically now, sell Branthwaite for every penny you can get, sell DCL as well, buy two right backs, a left back cover and somebody in midfield, and if you can find a poacher, do. 

But, oh God, it’s just so chaotic and so repetitive and we’ve been here for four seasons now. And I don’t blame Dyche, but I was very, very disappointed with his attitude to that game yesterday. Come on, going down, go down with the kids, go down with youth, go down with, you know, but he doesn’t trust it. 

Andy: It’s going to have to trust it at some point because it patently, I mean. What the really disappointing thing for me was. We saw when he made the changes against Roma, that we improved. So why didn’t he stick with that? 

Why didn’t he start with that? You know. You said it earlier, I think. Doucoure appears to be past his best. So when he made the change last week he moved Harrison more central and brought Lindstrom on. 

And we looked massively improved. And we took control of the game against a very decent city at our side. Well. 

I don’t. 

George: I’m just saying, like I always am on talk in the blues and shaking my head, agreeing with everything you say. I can’t understand why Doucoure made it out for the second half. I didn’t really understand why he made it out for the first half. 

He seems like a much better idea to come off the bench. 

Andy: Yeah. 

George: Having tried something a bit bolder because you know what you’re going to get and it will be wholehearted and it won’t quite work and it won’t quite, you know, it’s not he’s not a striker. He’s not a second striker. 

George: It’s just 

Andy: I mean, I mean, sign four players in the summer, you know, we’ve signed O ‘Brien, who’s done well in pre -season, we’ve signed Ndiaye, Iroegbunam, who’s looked, you know, comfortably the pick of the bunch so far, and Lindstrom, why didn’t he play them all? 

Why didn’t he start them all? Opening day of the season, you know, I remember, you know, when Howie came and he signed Alan Biley, and I’m trying to think who else was it, trying to think who his other signings were, and he’s played them all on the opening day of the season, and we won, and it was a sunny day, and everybody went home happy. 

The season didn’t pan out, but the opening day of the season was a success. And I just think yesterday, why didn’t you think, right, come on, fellas, let’s go for the new voice in. 

George: It’s breaking my, it’s doing my head in this, that’s absolutely correct. 

Speaker Andy: He had the opportunity to do it with, you know, with Branthwaite injured, with Garner injured as well, James Garner. 

George: Yeah. 

Andy: He had the opportunity to play, to give the new guys, all of them, the opportunity. And I can go out there, go and run your socks off for an hour, and then we can rig on. 

George: I’ve got to improve around the bench, yes, absolutely. 

Andy: But no, it didn’t. It was safety first and it ended up being safety nothing. 

George: It was chicken, Andy. Absolutely chicken, Andy. 

Andy: I’m not going to go so far as to say it was chicken or cowardly, but it sure as hell was the wrong choice because it backfired big time. And when your noise it up like that, you’ve got to be prepared to accept all of your hands up and say, I got it wrong and it won’t happen again. 

But you just know that it probably will. And that’s the disappointing thing. I mean, we’ve got no right. We’ve got no established right back now for the game at Spurs. So the strong likelihood is that Mason Hallgate will come in. 

Andy: Mm hmm. 

And no, you know, I’m sure he’ll do his damnedest to make the mistake. But unfortunately, Mason has always got an error in him. And in a similar fashion to Ashley Young, he’s a yellow card waiting to happen. 

George: especially at right back, which is not his position. 

Andy: No. 

George: So what choice does he have? 

Andy: Well, he hasn’t unless unless he’s prepared to unless he’s prepared to bring somebody else in from the 21s, which he won’t do. 

George: Well, he might play a back three of Keane, Tarkowsky and O ‘Brien. 

Andy: Yeah, push me to link or forward on the left a little bit. Oh, I don’t know. It’s just 

George: I don’t know. 

Andy: You know they shall food 

Andy: Yeah, four years on the track. 

Paul: But that gets back to the point, sorry George, that we were making and people listening earlier that maybe we’re just all running out of patience now because we’ve seen this so many times. Yeah. 

Andy: I think we’re entitled to run out of patience, Paul. 

Paul: Yeah, absolutely. 

Andy: That’s what that’s what John Moores is alluding to, you know, that if we don’t if we don’t get what we expect, and the very least we expect is 100% effort from every player in a blue shirt. If we and we’ve said it untill the cows come home, if we play, if we play as hard as we can, and get beat, then we get beat. 

But when you only put in a lacklustre effort, and some of yesterday, sadly, was for the opening day of the season, lacklustre, I thought Iroegbunam did well, and he did okay until his mistake cost us. 

I think it was the second goal he cost us actually, not the third kid, but. 

George: Thought that it was gone again, wasn’t it? 

Andy: Yeah but you know there was I mean McNeil was disappointing 

George: He’s going to tell you he never got a pass. 

Andy: Well, they’re entitled to work harder and there was players out there yesterday who weren’t working hard for my money and I just think opening day of a season is inexcusable and never mind whether it’s the last season at Goodison or not, you know, because they can’t use that as an excuse because the last season at Goodison has always been coming. 

It’s not an excuse, it’s not acceptable, not to me anyway. 

George: I don’t really use that as an excuse, sentimental codswallop and that’s all. 

Andy: Exactly. You take one game at a time and you go balls out for every game. You have to up your work rate. You have to increase your intensity. I didn’t see remotely the kind of intensity that you would expect on the opening day of the season. 

And when you’re at home on a sunny day, perfect conditions, pitch is perfect, full house, everybody’s up and ready for it. And it ended up as flat as a witch’s. Well, you know. 

Paul: But Andy, isn’t that, I suppose, the concern that we’re expressing about Dyche? All of that applies to him as much as it applies to the players on the pitch. And the concern is that he can’t do anything other than what he’s currently doing. 

And what he’s currently doing is doesn’t make us competitive in a league that is, you know, where other teams are progressing, progressing their style of football, bringing in young managers as did Brighton, for example, and having a totally, not necessarily a totally fresh approach to football, but having a different approach for one and being able to adapt to circumstances. 

And my big question is whether Dyche has that capability, whether he can actually, and maybe this is just the result of, you know, all the hard work that he’s already put into Everton. And it may be a result of the burden, as you say, Andy, that he’s carrying in terms of having to effectively carry the club. 

But …..

George: I think that’s a very good point. I do think Andy’s right about that. And I think you’re right to mention it again, that the man is carrying the whole damn thing on his back. Yeah, I think the answer to your question will be revealed by what he picks next week. 

Now he has got injuries and he will be hamstrung. But if he’s not bolder, then I fear that what you’re saying, which he can’t change, is true. And then I don’t know what happens then. No idea. 

Andy: That’s the problem we’ve all got, is that because of a complete lack of direction and apparent interest from the very, very top of the club, who’s going to talk to him? Who’s going to be making a phone call to him, either last night, sometime today or tomorrow morning to say, right, Sean, you know, Saturday was a shit show. 

What are we going to do about it? I mean, there were all sorts of, there were any number of stories about Chelsea under the Abramovich days that if the team lost, Abramovich was roasting whoever was the manager at the time. 

And he went through managers like the dose of salts, but they all won bloody trophies for him. You know, all right, he spent a lot of money, blah, blah, blah, but Abramovich wanted answers as to what on earth had gone on in the previous game. 

Now who is going to be having that conversation or is anybody going to be having that conversation with Sean Dyche, let’s say tomorrow morning? 

I think we know the answer to that. 

Paul: We’ll be right back. 

Andy: Nobody. Nobody. 

Paul: I don’t think it’s within Thelwell’s remit to do that, to be honest. I think the club’s strategy is pretty clear. It is to get through this season by hook or by crook and to stay in the Premier League so that we go into the stadium next year in the Premier League. 

Now, the question for all of us is, is that acceptable? Is that an acceptable objective? Yes or no? And then do we think we can actually deliver against that if that is the only objective? And the question, as evidenced by yesterday, is do we have a squad that’s good enough to do that? 

Do we have a manager who is motivated to make the changes necessary in order for us to keep up with the developments in football? Because, frankly, we look like a team that’s playing in a different era to most of the teams that we play against, week in, week out. 

That wasn’t the first time yesterday that that’s become apparent. And there are all these massive questions. Dychewill do what Dyche does, which is he will play what he perceives to be low risk football in terms of who he picks, what substitutions he makes, what the tactics are, keep it tight. 

Maybe we did last year score 30% of our goals from dead ball situations and we’ll gain enough points just to achieve the objective, which is to stay in the Premier League, who knows really what the objective is. 

But there is increasingly, I think, a question mark on whether Dyche can deliver against that. And that’s not a criticism or anything else, it’s just an observation. In the same way that we can’t really expect anything more from Michael Keane than what we saw yesterday, because he’s never, apart from the very, very early days when he joined the club, he hasn’t been able to offer anything else other than that in a fairly long period of time, four, five years, whatever the period is. Same with DCL. I think DCL has put quite an invidious position in the sense that maybe he hasn’t been offered a new contract and maybe he’s decided that he doesn’t want to sign it. 

Well, if that is the case, then it’s for him to make that clear and make it clear that he wants to leave the club and allow the club to effectively play without him. That obviously means starting better, which is a completely different discussion. 

Andy: Well, we’ve got better watch him hit you when he’s fit. 

Paul: Yeah, To me that’s not fair, which is, you know, unfortunate, so we would be left with Betto. 

Andy: Hm. 

Paul: Again, it probably needs somebody, not necessarily DCL to talk about these things, it probably needs somebody from the club to say, you know, what the situation is. But again, is the manager going to say that when he’s trying to get the best out of DCL in a team that’s not performing well, he’s probably thinking, well, I don’t really want to go there because that’s probably going to affect how he performs on Saturday. 

But somebody needs to say the things that are very obvious in terms of, you know, what is DCL going to do? Is he going to stay? Is he going to sign a new contract? Put the cards on the table. Here’s the contract. 

Are you going to sign it? Yes or no? No. Fine. We’re going to sell you because we have to sell you in order to generate some revenue in order to find a replacement. And we need to do it now. You know, we’ve got two weeks, is it two weeks left of the window and we need to bring somebody else in. 

So let’s cut to the quick, are you in, you send in your contract, are you fully committed and you give us your all, you know, as he has done in the past and we just have to accept him for the player that he is. 

You know, he’s not a prolific goalscorer, but he’s the best number nine or best central attacker that we’ve got in the squad. Or does everybody act like adults in the room? And he says, no, I want to leave. 

OK, you’re leaving and we accept the best offer we can for him and we find a replacement. And Dyche builds his attacking options around whoever the replacement is. This idea that we can just drift into, you know, the post window stage of the season, which is what we seem to be doing at this moment in time, is nonsensical. 

But again, that comes back to leadership, direction, strategy and all of the things that we’ve talked about on many different occasions. And I think it’s, you know, it is a difficult position for the lot. 

Andy: Well, somebody’s got to make some decisions sooner or later, preferably sooner. 

Paul: Yeah, totally. George, are you still with us? 

George: I am, I am, yeah, I’ll change the subject if you don’t mind, because I think you’ve covered all that, and I don’t know, you know, you’re asking for answers, there’s nobody to give them to you. There’s one other aspect of that match yesterday, which made me angry, which was that Brighton gave a perfect exhibition of how you manage gamesmanship. 

And then I counted maybe six times when the goalie and one of the defenders went, Are you taking this goal kicker? Oh, hang on. Clock ticking. If somebody had the courage to go, right, we’re going to stop this now. 

If the ball’s not in play, then the clock isn’t ticking, because what happened yesterday and they were really clever with it, if you like, if you kind of give cleverness points for cheating, basically, was they wound the crowd up. 

And when the crowd gets wound up at home, that means the players get tense, and their own, their possible levels drop. You know, you don’t play better with a tight ass. You don’t act better if your ass is clenched. 

You act better when you relax. You play better when you just go, Yeah, man, this is easy. I can do this. And if the crowd is getting on it, you’re just raising the temperature. And the argument that goes, You can’t stop the clock because of television schedules is bollocks, because if you stop the clock within 10 matches, every coach and every player would go, Right, sorry. 

Can’t cheat now. There’s no point doing that. So we’ll just get on with it. And they would. And I guarantee you that the match would last just the same length of time as it does now. Because what would be the point of cheating? 

There is no point. But, you know, the cheating is allowed, and Brighton gave a classic exhibition of how you do it yesterday. Just broke up the game from time to time, got the crowd going, and especially when they were 1 -0 up, and the penalty got disallowed. 

Then we had another goal kit, which had the Gladys Street baying, and you could feel the Everton players going, Oh, come on. And then they couldn’t. That’s all part of the David Brailsford school of  thinking little victories. 

Well, it’s about time the Football Authority did something to take away those kind of advantages, really, that players and coaches have manufactured for themselves. Fine. Well done. Going to stop now. 

Thank you. 

Paul: Yeah, fair points. I think there’s a discussion probably not for today. We can take it into the next podcast or when there’s a break. And on the first point that you made, George, I actually think one of the worst changes of the rules in football in recent years has been that when there’s a goal kick, the ball doesn’t have to leave the penalty area before somebody else touches it. 

Andy: Yeah. 

George: Well, I’m not going to agree with that because what Brighton did when they finally kicked the ball was used by staying in their own penalty area and pulling Everton players towards them. They’re making use of the whole 115 yards of the pitch, which hasn’t been since Dixie Dean was playing on it, frankly. 

And he wasn’t quite as mobile as DCL, I’ll be betting. So what they’re doing is that they’re making space because they’re confident they can play out and they absolutely will play out no matter what happens. 

 Brighton will not pick down the pitch and maybe you’ll win it and maybe you won’t. I don’t agree with that. You know, I can think of some pretty stupid rules that have been changed with that one. I don’t really mind because, you know, the pitches don’t change sides and the size and the players do get more mobile. 

And Brighton were dead right. So, you know, almost every team except Everton is playing like that. Keep the ball. Don’t give it away. Don’t lump it. Don’t belt it somewhere. It might not come back. 

It might not be held up, I beg your pardon. 

Paul: Fair enough. 

George: But it certainly a discussion for another manager because 

Andy: It’s not going to happen for the rest of the day. 

George: No, it’s not going to happen under Dyche and, you know, he would go, shut your gob. If I hadn’t had all those points knocked off last year, we would have finished 12th. Then where would you have been with your winching? 

You know. But it’s still. What bothers me about. Dyche there’s no alternative. 

Andy: Hmm. 

George: I don’t see, OK, OK, we’ll flood the midfield. I don’t see how we’ll play through them. You know, that boy that we bought from Aston Villa, he wants to play through them. Now, it seems to me that he is bursting to have Ndiayei in front of him, not Doucoure, who’s a channel runner and a sort of ahead of the ball guy and a hold the ball up guy and strong in the tackle. 

But Ndiayei is the guy that he wants, played a 1-2 with me. I’m running towards you. I’ve opened up the defense. I’ve won that 50-50. I’m coming at them. They’re panicking. I need someone who’s got quick feet in front of me. 

Ndiaye has got quick feet, but he’s on the bench. He’s on the bench, so it’s too late. 

Paul: Yeah, you need somebody who can get behind the opposition’s defence, and we don’t have that. Or we choose not to even attempt to do it. 

George: somehow yeah it’s oh dear and of course being beaten it you one can imagine Finch Farm tomorrow morning they’ll be going tighten up the defense tighten up the defense and actually the real problem is give them something to be afraid of 

Andy: Mm hmm. 

George: Once they’d scored, you knew, I knew, we all knew. Oh, no, we’re not going to score two. We’re probably not going to score one, you know? And then there’s another rule that did make me laugh. Ref gives a penalty. 

I didn’t think it was a penalty. VAR says it’s not a penalty, so it’s not a penalty. But look at the difference. DCL bangs the ball in the back of the net in front of Gwladys Street. One all, two minutes from, you know, the crowd go, absolutely ape-sh*t, different game. 

Totally different game, but we’ve got VAR. So the referee’s decision, which he made, and, you know, his lines didn’t run on and go, I think he got that wrong. How? Nothing of the kind gets discounted for one reason or another. 

You know, he thinks he’s… If we’d been playing that game in the third division, that would have been one all on the Gwladys Street. Bayon, come on. You never know what happened. But I didn’t think it was a penalty, and so I don’t mind that any more than, you know, VAR quite rightly said that that guy who scored the fourth goal, his knee was offside. 

So, you know, you can’t have it both ways. And Howard Webb’s right to go, don’t moan about VAR when the decisions go against you. One of the few occasions Howard Webb has been right. 

Speaker Andy: I was going to say, that’s a pretty short list. 

George: up on the ref when he booked everybody and didn’t send off the guy who stamped in somebody’s chest. Oh for God’s sake. 

Paul: Alright, should we leave it there? 

Andy: Yes, Paul. Yes, we can do it there. 

Paul: I managed to get to a whole podcast without talking about finance or anything else which is 

Andy: No, we’re probably best leaving that alone because I did have something to raise on that, but no, let’s forget it. 

George: I thought about that too, but it’s all smoke and mirrors and it’ll wait and still be there next week. 

Andy: Well, I’ll tell you what, I’m just going to throw this in then. Last week, I mean, we’ve been talking about yesterday as the opening game of the last season of Goodison, and last weekend was the last pre -season game ever at Goodison. 

So I have a question to ask of the club, because obviously we can’t answer it. So given that Everton Football Club were playing AS Roma in the last ever pre-season game at Goodison Park, why didn’t you open the top balcony? 

And why wasn’t the full hospitality available? Because at £20 a ticket, the top balcony would probably have sold out, because people would have wanted to go and see the last pre -season game of Goodison. 

Darren Griffiths kept banging on about it, ad nauseam in his commentary. But the top balcony wasn’t open. That could have raised maybe £100,000, 5,000 people up there in the top balcony. I’m not sure what capacity the top balcony is, but it probably wouldn’t have been far short. 

 And if the hospitality had been available, that might have been another £50,000 to £75,000 income. That would have covered Roma’s fee, because Roma didn’t turn up for nothing. The club would have had to have compensated Roma, whether they pay for their flights and hotels, I don’t know.

But why wasn’t the top balcony open for the final home game, for the final pre -season game at Goodison Park? It’s not like it was a non-entity opposition. This was a Serie A club that came and brought their fans but there was an opportunity there for Everton to sell out the stadium for a pre-season game, the last pre-season game. 

How many more times do we have to say it? That they let an opportunity to gain some more revenue, to cover some more bills, and I cannot fathom why for the life of me, they didn’t open it. It just baffles me. 

If they can’t commercialise Goodison with a capacity of 39,000 or 38,000, how are they going to commercialise Bramley-Moore with a capacity of 52,000, 53,000? Whatever the capacity of Bramley Moor is going to be. 

If we haven’t got the gumption to sell out a smaller ground, how are they going to have the gumption to sell out a bigger ground? Or are they just relying on the fact that a bigger capacity will bring in more blues who currently can’t get into Goodison? 

They couldn’t get into Goodison last Saturday because half of it was closed 

Mmm. 

Thank you. 

Paul: Fair enough. I think we know the answers to that question well. 

George: I think we do yeah anyway 

Paul: Alright, not quite how we hoped it would be after the first game, but it is only the first game, not that that’s an excuse for what happened. 

Speaker Andy: One down 37 to go. 

Paul: Yeah and you know there are games I suppose at the end of the day that are going to be games that we don’t think we’re going to win that we’re going to win and they’re going to be games that we think we ought to win that we’re not going to win so I suppose that’s the nature of football but not that that makes it any more or less acceptable yesterday. 

George: Spurs next Saturday? Indeed. Right, bring him on. 

Paul: Holgate’s at right back, George. That’s something for you to chew over during the week. 

George: I’m not going to be roused by that, Paul. 

Andy: Not rising to debate. 

George: No. 

Paul: Fair enough. I shall remind you of that next week. 

George: Yeah, when he’s sent off after an hour. Go on. 

Speaker Andy: I hope you guys are blind and out. 

George: I hope he has a blinder too, of course, everybody has a blinder, but you want to get cruel about yesterday’s performance, three people played well. Tarkowski played well, Harrison played well, and the boy in midfield played well. 

That was it. You can’t play three decent performances against a side that has got football down as simply as that. You’ll get hammered and we did. 

Paul: Yeah. Okay, gents, thank you so much. Thank you, George. Thank you, Andy. Thank you to everyone for listening. And well, let’s hope it’s something more cheerful next week when 

George: Yeah, can be like, battered spurs Andy 4-0. 

Paul: I like your line of thinking, George, excellent. 

George: you too. 

Paul: Indeed. Alright guys, thanks very much. Thanks everybody for listening and we’ll speak to you.