Paul: Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, depending upon where in the world you are, on what time of the day you’re listening to this post-Spurs match, Talking the Blues. Andy, how are you? 

Andy: I’m good Paul, thanks. 

Paul: Good. Now, normally, I know it has always been the three of us, so we can either be straight with our listeners and say, unfortunately George can’t make it today because he’s got family commitments, or we can pretend that George is here but he’s having difficulties with his audio. 

Which, you know, wouldn’t be an uncommon event, really. But I suppose we should really be truthful and say, it’s just me and you today. So, a bit like Everton, yesterday, we were a bit short. 

And you’re not called short very often. 

Andy: No.  

It’s probably just as well that it’s not headed up. The bleep machine would probably not go into overdrive. 

Paul: Yeah, I don’t know why we’re in such a good spirit. I’m in such a good mood and hopefully you are as well. Where do we start with yesterday? 

Andy: It’s funny actually because I was only thinking about this this morning because as is my once Sunday morning I go to the gym and I think I said last week that after the shellacking at home from Brighton that when I went to the gym last week I almost felt ashamed to wear my Everton top. 

Paul:You did

Andy:  And I got up this morning to go to the gym and I grabbed the top and I thought bugger it I’m wearing it. If someone wants to give me any grief in the gym they can try it. You know I’m big enough and ugly enough to take it and hand it back if I have to. 

So I donned my Everton shirt and went to the gym. There was nobody in. I was there on my own for about 40 minutes before anybody else came in. So but you know the point is I was you know having almost felt ashamed last week I thought bugger it this week I’ll wear it wearing with pride. 

You know we might not be, we might not be the best team in the country at the minute. We might be a pale imitation of the Everton that I grew up with but at the end of the day I’m a blue and I’ll wear my shirt and that’s it and the people don’t like it people want to try and check the mickey. 

We’ll feel free. 

Paul: Yeah, absolutely. We’re all Evertonians at the end of the day. And funny enough, and I know most people know that I don’t go to the game that often. I actually went to the game yesterday. Good news. Yeah, which was great with a bunch of really good mates, some of whom that you know, many people will know who they are on social media. 

And it was a very odd occasion. And not only for me personally, but for most Evertonians in the ground, because, you know, we still have this massive away support, we still sold out every ticket. And, you know, my hat, if I wore a hat, my hat would go off to every single one of them who do that week in, week out, not only obviously, not only because of all of the away games, because for their investment of time and money, 

and emotional investment in the club, currently, they’re not getting a huge amount back for it. No. I suppose, in line with what you’re saying, you know, it’s a lifetime thing, isn’t it? And you hope over time, that it balances out a little bit, albeit, it doesn’t look at the moment, as if it is really possible for it to balance out, because the gulf between who and what Tottenham are currently, and what we are. 

Andy: It’s the age-old gulf of the haves and the haves not, have not since it, you know. Tottenham have got the stadium, they’ve got decent ownership, they’ve got a decent squad. We haven’t got the stadium yet. 

We’ve got dear old Goodison that we all love and we’re all going to be gutted to leave. We certainly haven’t got the ownership that we want and we haven’t got the team that we want. What can you say? I mean, I watched the game yesterday and it was bitterly disappointing right from the off, right from the kick -off, Spurs went for us at pace and focused on what they were doing, determination written all over them and they got the job done. 

I mean, all right, they had a massive help on the second goal, you know, when Jordan messed up, which to be fair, he held his hands up immediately and said, lads, I’m sorry. But generally, it was extremely disappointing, you know, setting aside the young lad who made his debut at right back, young Dixon, I thought he had an excellent game, I thought he worked his socks off, put in a proper shift, 

You know, a young lad making his debut at that level, he would have been excused if he’d run out of gas after an hour and he didn’t. I thought he put in an excellent shift and he alone deserves the support that you mentioned, you know, the 3,000 or more that travel every week, that lad deserved the support of those fans and I think he rewarded, as best he could, their endeavors in getting to White Hart Lane or the new Tottenham Stadium as its goal. 

Paul: Yeah, and to be fair, I have to say this, you know, the whole team got the support of the fans, albeit there was a certain sense of resignation even before the game started, and a certain lack of belief that we were going to get anything out of it. 

And of course, as the game developed, and from the moments of the kickoff, as you say, Spurs were on the front foot, and it was it was effectively it looked like a training match, it looked like what we used to play when we were kids, where you play attack versus defence, because we didn’t represent any threat, obviously stating the obvious. 

And if this is where it’s, and I know it’s, I know it was difficult, and I know, you know, we had seven players who might have played but couldn’t play for different reasons yesterday. And I know things are tight, and I know Dyche is now at last partially justifying what’s happening by recognizing the financial situation of the club, whereas, you know, in previously joining his period as manager, he’s tended to steer away from the off field issues, 

Talking about those issues as noise. And I think it’s quite interesting that this season is prepared to admit that, you know, he really, and the club really can’t do much more than what they’re doing because of the circumstances that the club finds itself in. 

Andy: I think the fact that he is speaking more openly about the situation just kind of rubber stamps what we said last week that nobody else from the club is prepared to front up so he’s having to do it. 

Paul: Yeah, I agree with that. I mean, he looked nearly as isolated as DCL yesterday. In the sense that one of the people I was with took a photograph of the director’s box. Right. You know, right behind where Dyche was standing or where the benches are, where the dugouts are. 

And, you know, there’s four or five empty seats where the Everton contingent would normally sit. And, you know, Kevin Thelwell was there and two others. And I thought, I can’t remember who the two others were, but they were relatively inconsequential figures. 

Moshihiri wasn’t there, obviously. And, you know, I don’t think well, had Spellman been there, nobody would have known anyway because nobody knows who he is or what he looks like. And it just that I will get back. 

I’ll get back to Dyche in a minute. Just want to make the point that, you know, we’re a club that’s totally adrift. And I think Dyche, to be fair to him, is doing everything that he can do and to put a team out and to try and provide some leadership. 

But unfortunately for him, I think what we’ve shown yesterday is it’s not just the resources that are the issue for the football club, but it’s Dyche’s… 

Andy: Yeah. 

Paul: because we are, last week we were very easy to play against. Once you’ve worked out what, you know, what the tactic is, the long diagonal ball, out to Harrison, and we talked about that, and everybody’s talked about that last week. 

That wasn’t a consideration today, yesterday, sorry. And I don’t really know what, and I’d be fascinated to hear if anybody else has worked out what really we were trying to do, yesterday, because even had we had our first choice back four in front of Pickford, are we really saying that we could have held out against that Tottenham team that playing on a very big pitch, stretches the ball as wide as they possibly can, 

And moves the ball from one side of the pitch to the other, deliberately, you know, stretching the defence, are we really saying that even if we’d had our best four defenders on the pitch, and you can argue who they may be, apart from obviously the two central defenders who went, we couldn’t have them together yesterday, are we really saying that we could have lasted 90 minutes, and Tottenham not conceded the goal? 

Because even with whom we had, you know, Dixon Tarkowski, Keene and Mykolenko in the back four, that was the game plan, wasn’t it? The game plan was to try and see out the game. And for Tottenham not to concede, because, well, first of all, once they’d scored, our tactics didn’t change, but there were really no, there were really no tactics in terms of getting the ball, even at times over the halfway line. 

I mean, last week, the problem was (i) got the ball over the halfway line, Doucoure was offside more often than not. Yeah. And Brighton played a very, very high line. Tottenham didn’t even have to worry about springing the offside trap yesterday, because, you know, frankly, we hardly got the ball out of, or it seemed at least, that we hardly, I haven’t looked at the statistics, but it seemed at least, apart from a few moments, where we had a couple of corners and stuff. 

Andy: Yeah, that late flurry of corners in the last five minutes of the first half. 

Paul: the first half. We offered no attacking threat whatsoever. And we play, again, this is me, my view of how we play. We play so deep and we live in the view from Dyche. We’ve obviously got no pace in the side and he seems to be petrified of losing possession by getting the ball forward and therefore we’re left with this ridiculous situation whereby we’re trying not to concede a goal. 

We’re not getting the ball very far up the pitch, so we’re allowing the opposition to camp effectively in our half of the pitch, whether they’ve got possession or not. And I don’t know how you win games. 

I don’t even know how you draw games on that basis, as was proven yesterday. And my fear is if we continue down this line, for many of the games, certainly the games away from home, frankly, how many points are we going to get away from home? 

Because in order to gain a point, it’s almost certain that we have to not concede a goal. And yet, we conceded seven goals in two games. 

Andy: We’ve only recorded two shots on target in two games. 

Paul: And we just don’t look as if we can draw a clean sheet at this moment in time. And, you know, Pickford was a bit unfortunate, I suppose. Anybody can make a mistake and when a goalkeeper makes a mistake of that nature, and it leads to a goal, then all the fingers point at him. 

But he had made two very good saves before then. Yes, he had. Which sort of had gone almost unnoticed. And, you know, at the end of the day, he is probably one of two or three players that have kept us in the Premier League over the last three seasons. 

So him having one error at Tottenham seems to be unfair to be having a real go at him. And to be fair, I don’t think many Evertonians were. Certainly the people in the crowd, you know, everybody was annoyed at the time when we conceded that goal. 

But I don’t think anybody really, you know, there was no booing or anything else. So when he came out for the second half and he apologised straight away. 

Andy: It’s like you said, Paul, when a goalie makes a mistake of that magnitude, it sticks out like a sore thumb. When you weigh up how many games he’s kept us in and he’s saved us in, in the last three or four years, then, I mean, if a player or if a goalie can be entitled to a mistake, he’s earned that right. 

Yeah. I mean, you don’t want him to exercise that right, but he’s just, you know, I mean, yeah, it was disappointing, but was it annoying momentarily because immediately, you know, I did it yesterday, you know, you think, Jesus, Jordan, what have you done there? 

But then you think, hang on a minute, you know, this guy has played his heart out for this club since he joined, you know, he’s England’s undisputed number one, and he’s earned that right through his performances forever at the football club. 

Like I said, you know, if he’s entitled, you know, if anybody’s allowed an error, it’s Jordan Pickford. Unfortunately, as always, with a goalie, it costs a goal, you know, it’s a costly error, but I think, as you said, I think the vast, vast majority of Evertonians will let that pass under the, you know, that will end the war to going under the bridge, forget about it. 

More importantly, you know, we need to find a way to score goals because sadly, if we concede, we don’t look like we don’t look like we have got to find a way to take a lead in a game and then try and defend it if that’s, that’s what Dyche’s mantra is about. 

Paul: Yeah, I agree with that. Before we get on to what we do with the top end of the pitch, just two comments. First of all, the Tottenham fans were very happy to remind Pickford that he was England’s number one, which was, from a non-partial point of view, quite funny. 

Annoying, obviously, being an Evertonian, but sort of quite funny that they kept on singing England’s number one at it. But on a more serious note, actually, for me, and I’m sure for Dyche and for the coaching squad, the three other goals that Tottenham scored, I think, were more concerning because, you know, the Pickford goal, the second goal, was just the result of an unenforced error, and that can happen. 

You don’t want it to happen, but it can happen. To me, the nature of the other three goals, and they were all obviously very different goals, is more worrying. 

Andy: The one that concerned me the most was Romero’s header from the corner. Yeah, it was shocking, absolutely shocking. I mean, the first goal, you know, the strike from the edge of the box, JP had no chance with that. 

No chance. It was a terrific shot. You know, good build -up play from Tottenham, they weren’t the opening and they took it. But the corner and a simple header from a corner like that, there’s no way that experienced defenders like Keane, Tarkowski and with DCL at the back helping out, there’s no way that we should concede a goal like that. 

That for me was the worst of the four. Yeah, I think so. That was worse than JP’s error because that was totally unexpected. A corner kick, you know what’s going to happen. You know, it’s either going near post or a flick on. 

It’s going back post for the head back across the target or it’s going into the six yard area for someone to rise like a salmon and nod it home. And that’s exactly what the lad did. And we should have been able to prevent that. 

And for a Sean Dyche side, dare I say, to concede a goal like that is almost unforgivable. 

Paul: It was really interesting watching it from where I stood. First of all, it was a completely free run. There was no blocking off. The goal scorer was probably standing in and around where the penalty spot is and made his run from there, and he ran in between the two centre backs, which had never happened. 

First of all, there was no blocking it. Secondly, to be able to get a free header between the two centre backs is very basic stuff that even at the schoolboy level, if you were a defender, you’d be told off for that. 

So that was just poor. But just going back to the first goal, as well, I thought the first goal was, in a sense, almost equally poor, because time and time again over the years, we’ve got this tendency to defend so deep that we actually leave a lot of space on the edge of the penalty box. 

So, yeah, Tottenham worked the ball really well across the box from right to left. But when the ball came out, the ball came out to the 18-yard line. And, OK, it was a great shot and everything else, but it was unchallenged and it went through a few players. 

But it went through a few players at such speed that Pickford would have had no chance anyway. But it was the fact that it was, again, there’s that gap between where our defenders were and somebody hanging around on the edge of the box in the D, waiting for that ball to come out, as it did. 

And then, obviously, the game was long gone by the time they scored the fourth goal. But for Micky van de Ven to run like 80 yards on shot, it was virtually unchallenged. 

Andy: Well, yeah. I mean, particularly given, I mean, when he went down late in the first half, I think I sent you a text message saying he’s hyped for extending his knee. It looked really, really bad when they showed it in slow motion. 

And for him, when I was I was amazed that he carried on having hyped for extending the knee myself, it’s painful. But I mean, for them to go and rub salt in the wound with that run from, you know, from the edge of his own box to the edge of our box to playing, you know, as you said, literally unchallenged. 

I mean, that was that really was pouring salt in an open wound, really. 

Icing on the cake from Tottenham’s point of view, but poor. 

Paul: They won’t have any easier home game all season. It comes back to tactics that everything deployed down to the manager. I think it comes down to the state of mind. There are mitigating circumstances in terms of who the starting 11 was, who was missing, the fact that there weren’t any great options on the bench. 

Although you could argue on the basis of the previous week’s performance and the preseason why Ndaiya didn’t start. Although to be honest, when he came on he didn’t really change matters, did he? But, you know, Doucoure, I’m not exactly sure what’s happened to him over the summer. 

Andy:There were signs that last season wasn’t that perhaps he’s passed his best. 

Well, I mean you could say the same about Dwight McNeil as well at the minute. He’s a shadow of the player we had last season. Yeah, and he doesn’t facially doesn’t look happy. He doesn’t he doesn’t look happy and he doesn’t look. He doesn’t look motivated At the minute and he doesn’t to me McNeil doesn’t look a hundred percent fit. And if they’re not fit for the start of the season then bench him. Put someone in who’s hungry. 

What you know, we’ve signed Lindstrom, We’ve signed, you know, this as you said, there’s Ndyia who could replace the core a to play behind or alongside DCL, Lindstrom Obviously when Ghana when gone James Garner fit you can imagine he’s just gonna walk straight back into that side. 

Paul: Yeah You know, it’s just Yes, I mean that there are mitigating circumstances, but At the same time The players that are selected should shoulder the responsibility and Briefly the only one who the only one who went out there yesterday and rolled up his sleeves and really got stuck in for the whole 90 minutes was the young lad at right back He was a breath of fresh air and you know, as I said earlier I I’d have excused him if he’d run out of gas But he didn’t yeah You know I was He his performance was was really the the only positive out of what we saw on the pitches today 

Paul: Yeah, I mean, it’s interesting, he didn’t look out of place. He didn’t he didn’t look overawed by the situation. No, he didn’t. And in any sense, he looked quite comfortable. And I suppose one of the dice said a number of interesting things, didn’t he, at the end of the game? 

And he said one or two bizarre things as well. Well, yeah, I think we’ll get on to the bizarre stuff in a minute. 

Andy: OK. 

Paul: But it’s actually good to hear him talking, whether we agree with what he has to say or not. I’d much rather hear him saying it than him just coming out with the normal platitudes of a manager. So, you’re media trained and everything else. 

Andy: I’m switching into. 

Paul: No, and give me some honesty, even if I don’t agree with it more at the end of the day. Deitch, I suppose this is an interesting one, isn’t it? We just talked about Dixon coming on, first game, tough ask and everything else, lose 4 -0. 

But he never really lost his head, his head never went down or anything like that. He just tried his best, which in the circumstances is very good. You compare that with what Deitch says about what happens when everything to get the ball up the pitch. 

And the uncertainty, the nervousness, the lack of decisiveness, making the right decisions, which are the comments that he made against Brighton. These are pretty experienced pros that we’ve got playing at the top end of the pitch. 

What is it about that preparation? And I don’t know the answers to this. What is it about that preparation that means that they’re in this condition when they go on the pitch? Is it because, for example, in the case of DCL, perhaps he doesn’t want to be at Everton anymore, and that’s why he hasn’t signed his contract and perhaps he is looking to move away. 

Andy: Yeah, but at the same time Paul, if that’s what’s going to his head that he doesn’t want to be out of it any longer, he wants to move, the worst thing he’s doing is not performing. He should be putting, if he wants to go, and he’s entitled to want to go, but at least put yourself in a shop window by making yourself look an attractive purchase, you know, he’s supposed to, you know, if he wants to go, 

Andy: He needs to find a buyer, but he’s not going to find a buyer by putting in lacklustre performances. 

Paul: No, he’s not helping himself at all. And he’s not helping the club. What? He’s not helping us, the team too. And he’s not helping himself. 

Andy: No. Well, it’s easy for me to say he should be running his socks off. He should be trying to make himself look attractive to people who are still in the market for a striker. Because at the minute, I would suggest he isn’t going to get his dream move in the Premier League. 

Andy: No, I don’t think there’s another Premier League side. Would touch you at the moment. 

Paul: Certainly not one of the top half teams. 

Andy: Well, no, certainly not one of the top art teams. You know, I mean, it was, you know, that that season under Ancelotti, there was talk of a ridiculously expensive move to Arsenal. Well, Arsenal wouldn’t touch him, City wouldn’t touch him. 

Andy: You know, none of the so called big clubs would touch him. I’m sorry, Dominic, but if you want it, if you want to move away from Everton, and you want it sharpish, then you put you better, you better put an effort in in the next couple of games, because the window’s closing shortly. 

Paul: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, not having to go in just for the sake of having to go in, just these are just observations about him. He’s a professional, he’s a very well -paid professional. He’s based on his performance over the years for the club. 

We all know his strengths and weaknesses, but he’s generally well thought of by Evertonians. He’s generally being respected for his attitude throughout most of his career. People understand maybe mental health issues as a result of the injuries he’s had in the recovery situation and stuff like that, and that’s all perfectly understandable, and everybody accepts that completely. 

What is difficult to accept at the moment is that he is offering everything that he’s got to offer. Or rather, what’s difficult to accept is, is he offering all that he has to offer? 

Andy: What he’s currently offering is we know it’s not his best. 

Because we’ve seen his best, what he’s currently offering, he’s nowhere close to that, and in that respect he’s doing himself the biggest disservice, I mean he’s doing a disservice to the club, but like we said, if he wants a move, he ain’t doing himself any favour. 

Paul: Now is that him? Is it the manager? Is it the tactics? Is it just the condition that the club finds itself in? Or is it all of those things again? It could quite possibly be. 

Andy: I think, sadly, Paul, I think the condition of the club and the uncertainty surrounding the club clearly now appears to be affecting players’ performance on the field. Once they cross the white line, everything else really should go out of the head and it should be all about, you know, playing the game that’s in front of them and doing their utmost to get a result. 

But with so much uncertainty surrounding the squad, the future of the club, the state of the ownership, you know, the players aren’t stupid. They can obviously see that Dyche is the front man for everything, which is unfair on him, as we said last week. 

He doesn’t help himself at times with one or two of the comments he makes. But at the end of the day, he does appear to be the one that’s shouldering all, if you like, media responsibility. And I do think that that now is beginning to get to the players or has got to the players. 

I really do. I don’t think it’s got to Pickford. I think Pickford’s above it. I don’t think it’s got to Tarkowsky. I think he’s probably above it. He’s just one of those characters. You know, he’s Iron Man. 

He’s not missed a game since he signed for the club. And even though he’s been carrying an injury, he’s carried on playing and doing his damnedest. But I think in the performances of some of the other players, I think that it is beginning, you know, all the off field stuff must be having some kind of detrimental effect on them. 

Maybe they’re thinking, well, I don’t know. I was going to say why should we bother, but they should be bothered because when you’re not bothered in a physical game like that, you’re going to get hurt. 

And I don’t think any of them go out there to get hurt. No, although it’s just, it’s just, it must be getting to them mentally, it must be affecting them, whether it’s affecting them in training or whether, you know, whether the pressure when they’re on the pitch in front of 40,000 people at Goodison or wherever, however many when they’re on the road. 

I mean, at the end of the day, they’re human beings. 

Paul: Yeah, but in a sense, yes, they indeed, there was no, there was no pressure. In a sense, well, there’s pressure about the circumstances. And obviously there’s a pressure to get a result, which should be in any game. 

But there wasn’t a hostile environment in the ground, a big crowd, obviously 61 ,000. But the Tottenham fans were largely quiet, apart from when they scored. 

Andy: Yeah. 

Paul: You know, not a hostile environment in any sense. There wasn’t a bad tackle in the game from either side. I think there were no yellow cards. 

Andy: No, that’s a good point, I don’t think it was. We can’t excuse. 

Paul: which is unusual. Tottenham didn’t really have to get out of second or third gear, occasionally they were in third gear. I think as Premier League matches go, not only for Tottenham, but that’s about as easy a game as you’re going to go. 

Andy: Yeah, sadly. And unfortunately, after these opening two games, the immediate reaction is everybody must be looking at their schedule to see when they’re playing Everton. Nobody’s going to be worried about facing Everton, unfortunately, in a minute. 

Not as it stands, no? No, when they’re doing their preparation for the game coming up against Everton, they’ll look up, they’ll look, they’ll do their video reviews and they’ll look. I mean, we’ve got, well, we’re setting aside Doncaster in the Carabao Cup on Tuesday. 

The next game is Bournemouth. So the Bournemouth people will be looking at, if they’re doing video review, they’ll be looking at the Brighton game and yesterday’s game and saying, look how easy these guys are to get at. 

Look how easy we can get, we can get at these guys. We need to play at face, we need to play with width. And they’ll concede and once they fall behind, their heads go down. Because they don’t believe, they don’t believe that they can recover and come from behind. 

And I don’t think, I don’t think, and I think the players, I think our players actually are feeling that if we fall behind, we’re snookers. I was going to say buggers, but. 

Paul: I think the last time that we won a game where we were behind was the Palace game, wasn’t it? Probably what? The 3-2. I don’t think it happened at all last season. No. And obviously, it’s very early this season, but it clearly hasn’t happened yet. 

Yeah. It’s tough. 

Andy: It is very tough, very tough and, you know, and it just takes you back to those fans that travel week in week out, you know, those guys that go every single game home and away. I mean, we’ve said it, umpteen times on this podcast, you cannot give them massive credit. 

Their staying power is ridiculous. If the players have the stamina of the fans, we might have a chance of winning the odd game. 

Paul: Yeah. Yeah. I’m actually, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m sure there’ll be. 

Andy: Yeah, it’s tough being a blue, isn’t it? 

Paul: It is, but I’m not sure I’d want to be anybody else. I think, you know, when you look around it, all the Evertonians are there. There’s still a lot of pride. There’s still a lot of pride. 

Yeah, yeah. And, you know, we may be going through tough times as we are at the moment and as we have done increasingly over the years. And we may be 30 years since now. Well, by the end of this season, it will be 30 years since we last won a trophy. 

Right. Which is, you know, incredible. Is it 20 -something games since we last beat Tottenham? 

Andy: Yeah. 

Paul: But we’re still Evertonians and we still love our football club and we still have a football club despite all of the problems that the club has and the lack of concern that’s demonstrated by the owners and we still have a football club to be proud of. 

Andy: We have elements of a football club to be proud of. I don’t think we, I think this, I think you’ve just said it, you know, the, the ownership and, and everything. We’re not proud of that in the slightest. 

I’m proud of the fan base. I’m proud of the effort that is being put in, even though it’s not, it’s nowhere close to what’s required. But there’s, there’s a whole lot of stuff that I’m not particularly proud of. 

Yeah. 

Paul: You know what I’m saying. I do. I do. I do know what you’re saying, but. And. When I when I when I look at the football club and. I wasn’t really going to address this, but I may as well. And this is why I say the things that I say on social media, on Twitter and the stuff I write about, about, you know, a John Texter not being good enough for our football club, 777 not being good enough for our football club. 

You know, all the other people that I’ve criticised in recent years, including Moshiri. Yeah. And I still have this massive, fundamental, fundamental belief that we are the football club. 

We, we the Evertonians, whether we’re match going Evertonians or not, we are the football club and we have in our own minds, rightly or wrongly, and irrationally at times a vision about our football club. 

We see there’s something that increasingly now it’s older fans who remember the times when we won stuff and we competed at the top of the game and we were, you know, leaders in the game, not followers. 

When we were, when we were feared. Yeah. And with justification, because, yeah, a), we had a fantastic team. b), we were always competitive. And c), we were right at the forefront of any developments within the game. 

We were innovators. Yeah. Within the game. And that’s why. That’s why we still have the remnants of a club that we have today. And. My belief is that. At some point, the people like Moshiri the years beforehand under Kenwright, these things will pass. 

Now, they’re not going to pass by accident, which is why it’s so important that we get the right owner, why we should apply the greatest scrutiny to the right owner, because just as Kenwright was not capable of finding the right owner and found Moshiri. 

Moshiri is absolutely not capable of finding the right next owner. And he has to be held to account. And whoever that right, whoever that new owner is, all the questions have to be asked before that person signs on the dotted line. 

There’s no point in allowing somebody into the club like we did with Moshiri. And then for the doubts to start 12, 18 months into their ownership, which is what happened under Moshiri. 

Andy: Yeah. 

Paul: And we can’t afford to do that now because we’re not we’re not in a position where we can afford to make another mistake. 

Andy: No, absolutely. We’re almost at the point of no return, aren’t we? Whoever does eventually fit the bill is really going to have to tick every single box that’s put in front of them. 

Paul: to them. Yeah, and recognize, first of all, recognize the position the club is in, not by this story that Moshiri will give, not by the story that Moshiri’s advisors will give about, you know, this is just a club that now needs a little bit of investment, we’re going to move into a new stadium. 

But they have to recognize that what they’re buying is a very distressed asset. And I know a lot of Evertonians hate me saying this, but the evidence is there, they say that’s exactly what we are, a new stadium or not. 

We’re heavily indebted, we have a, you know, the team has been asset stripped, the squad is as weak as any squad I can ever remember. 

Andy: it’s potentially got more assets shipping to be doing, it’s wonderful. 

Paul: There’s probably more more to be done. Yeah, absolutely. Let’s hold on. And at a time when our competitors and the people that we always used to think of as our peers, stronger and grow stronger, we were going in the opposite direction. 

And that’s why it’s so vital that at this time, whoever comes in next is the right person that they recognize the position that they have the means to do something about it. I’m going to say the means to do something about it, not just the money, because as we know, it’s difficult to spend money because of PSR, but they have the management capabilities, they have the skill set. 

Andy: Exactly. 

Andy: Right, because Paul we’ve had the money, when Moshiri came in we had the money and we blew it. It’s not about having money, it’s making the best use of whatever money you’ve got. Yeah. And then, you know, the way the businesses run, the way management decisions are made, you don’t have to, well, clearly in football it helps if you’ve got a bottomless pit of money, but if you’re well run and professional about the way you do things, then you should be able to manage on less than the money that we’ve currently or that we’ve wasted in the last seven or eight years. 

Paul: You know, that that money’s gone. Yeah. And we’re still, in a sense, we still got the hangover from the binge. Because of PSR because of the amount of losses that we’ve made in the past. Yeah. 

And but unless somebody comes in, and they’ve obviously got to have some money, because they’ve got to repair ever since balance sheets. But most of all, that they’ve got to have the ability to recognize the position that the club is in, not sort of think that we’re in, we’re in a false position that we’re all we need is a bit of luck, or we need, you know, a bit of a helping hand, we don’t, we need a restructuring from the very start to the very end. 

And, you know, we are, that’s how poor the condition of the foot of the football club is. And that’s why it’s so important that we maintain as much pressure as possible on Moshiri to actually find the right person. 

And if he finds people who aren’t appropriate, and I’ll have an article tomorrow about what really defining why I think Textor is not the right person. Why we’ve got to try and stop this from happening, because another, another bad owner coming in might be enough just to tip us over the edge. 

Andy: Yeah, it’s great. 

Paul: We, none of us want that, and none of us, none of us need that. No, absolutely. Yeah. While I was saying all that, I was just thinking back on one thing that we didn’t talk about. Yeah. And this is controversial, but it needs talking about Sean Dyches’ attitude towards the fans seems to have changed. 

Andy: Mm. 

Paul: And some of the comments he made last week and some of the comments he’s made this week and some of the comments he made after the game yesterday, what’s your views on that? 

Andy: Well, I mean, his comments after the Brighton game regarding the empty seats, I mean, at the end of the day, the fans have paid the money. If they don’t like what they’re seeing, it’s their right to get up and go early if they want to. 

Personally, I’ve never done it, but I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t admonish anybody believing early last week, I wouldn’t really admonish anybody believing early yesterday either. Was he taken slightly out of context? 

I’m not so sure whether he was. The two comments this week that baffled me was the one about Europe. That didn’t make any sense to me at all, because it’s the last season of Goodison that we were expecting to be in Europe. 

Well, I don’t quite know where that’s come from. I’ve never heard anybody mention we should be in Europe this year. Short of joining the Ukraine -Russia war, we’re not going to be in Europe. And I say that ridiculously flippantly. 

And the one that got me yesterday, his comment yesterday about the loss to Tottenham, about Tottenham, about it being Tottenham’s first home game, a full house, and everybody being up for it. And I’m thinking, well, hang on a minute, wasn’t it the same for us last week? 

First home game in the season at Goodison back to the rafters. Why weren’t we up for it? Because after that first 10 minutes again at Brighton, we weren’t up for it. And that was the one that baffled me the most. 

Was it an excuse that it was Tottenham’s first home game and we were the cannon fodder for their opening of the season? Because why weren’t Brighton the cannon fodder for our opening of the season last week? 

That really struck me as being a very, very odd statement. His statements about the fans, maybe the first one was a little bit, was taken slightly out of context. I don’t know. But one thing’s for sure is he cannot go on. 

Nobody, no manager, no owner, no member of a board of any football club, let alone Everton football club, can go out making blase statements like that about the fan base. Because if there’s one fan base that no manager, no player, no board member, no owner should piss off, it’s an Everton fan base. 

We’ve shown that in the last three years it’s the fans that have risen to the challenge of a relegation fight and dragged three teams through a relegation fight to survival. And that should never be forgotten. 

And as you’ve said many, many times, it’s the fans who are the custodians of the club, managers, players, boardroom members, owners come and go. The one constant in any football club, not just Everton football club, any football club, but one constant is the support, the support on the tenancies, the support worldwide. 

And you cannot afford to alienate those people. And Sean Dyche, in particular at the moment, needs to remember that. Moshiri, I don’t think has ever really realised it. I don’t think Kenwright ever did either, it was all about himself. 

And I think there’s an awful lot of people within the club who possibly don’t realise that without the fan base that this club enjoys, we would already be in the championship. And if anybody takes this fan base for granted this season and alienates the fan base rather than encourages the fan base or gets on board with the fan base, anyone who alienates the fan base is caught in massive problems for the future. 

Because if the fan base turns and decides no, we’ve had enough, then it will fall apart. 

Paul: Yeah, absolutely 100%. I thought about reading it later. This is a guy that’s currently going through quite a bad patch himself. I don’t think he’s got the clarity that he’s demanding of his players because he talked consistently, hasn’t he? 

It’s what happens on the pitch that’s the most important thing. And he’s asking the players for that type of clarity to block out everything else. And I know I said a few minutes ago, I’m pleased that he’s at least being a little bit more honest. 

And he’s talking about things that he hasn’t talked about previously. But he’s wrong in terms of identifying the fans as being a problem for all the reasons that you just said. Yeah, he’s not wrong about what he said about leadership, and about the leadership of the club, about the ownership of the club. 

Because that’s true also. I just think he’s, I think he’s in and realizes that he’s in a really difficult position. I don’t think he’s identified what the solution is. He certainly did not identify what the solution was on the pitch. 

No, I don’t think he’s identified what the solution is. How does he deal with, how does he deal with all of the difficulties that he’s dealt with previously? Because previously by hook or by crook, he’s dealt with him to the extent that, you know, season before last we survived, this season, last season, sorry, you know, we survived comfortably despite all of the points penalties and stuff. 

I don’t think he’s got that clarity at this particular moment in time. He knows, obviously, that we’ve got to win a certain number of games, we’ve probably got to win nine or 10 games, which is like one in, well, one in four games, we’ve got to win, and maybe then we’ve got to draw another one in four games. 

And if we do that, and if we score 35 to 40 goals, then we’re probably going to stay, survive another season in the Premier League before things might get better next year. But I just wonder whether or not he’s actually worked out how he’s going to do that this year. 

And the fact that he’s not committed to another contract yet beyond the end of this season is a question mark. He’s got every right to say, hang on there, I can’t commit to remaining manager if I don’t know who the owners are going to be next year. 

If I don’t know what state the business is going to be in next year, if I don’t know whether Moshiri is going to be the owner or not, and if Moshiri is still going to be the owner, whether I want to manage a club that’s still owned by Moshiri, I get all of that. 

But you can’t say that on the one hand, and then go and ask DCL to sign a new contract on the other. 

Andy: Everything everything’s everything’s a problem in the minute and said it is this with no with no problem finding problems there’s no solutions.

Paul: If you got points for problems we would win the league yeah and that’s not again you know stress it’s just that’s not knocking individuals or anything else it’s just this is the hand that we’ve got now and and obviously the hand that we’ve got is a result of the ballot of the bad decisions that we’ve made in the past but this is what what we’ve got and this is what we’re having to deal with and the question is as was shown yesterday not only are the players capable of rising above the difficulties that we’ve got but we know that the owner isn’t and we know that the the senior management of the football club as a business are not capable of rising rising above those issues if indeed they ever were we know that and and we have relied almost exclusively and extensively on dice to do you know since his time here there is a bit i think there has to be a big question mark over his ability to continue doing that and whether or not um like as what happened it firmly before he left firmly you know he just re bit like a marathon runner who’s maybe just running a little bit faster than they would do normally 

Andy: Mm -hmm. 

Paul: before the race is run, you hit the wall and maybe say the wall. I’m just, I’m just beginning to think, has he hit the wall and does he have anybody around him? Uh, if he has indeed hit the wall, uh, to help him, because if he hasn’t got that person and I mean that person professionally, I’m sure in his personal life and everything, he’s got, you know, full of support, friends, family, et cetera. 

But professionally, if he doesn’t have that support around him, um, as perhaps he didn’t have towards the back end of his, um, tenure, uh, uh, burnley, having performed miracles before that, uh, whether or not we’re not seeing the beginnings of the same pattern here. 

Andy: Yes, you might be right on that, Paul. I mean, with regards to support, you know, yeah, undoubtedly gets support of his family and his friends, but within the club, who’s he got to turn to? You know, from what we see, there doesn’t appear to be, we said this thing last week, you know, it was who was ringing him up on the Monday morning after the after the writing game to say what the hell what the hell went wrong there. 

And I hope there’s going to be, you know, we’re not going to see a repeat of what I’ve taught them from Saturday. And here’s a question I wanted to ask you. It’s bearing in mind yesterday, you said earlier, that there would appear to be three or four empty spaces in the directors box that would have been taken had, and haven’t had a proper board, if you like. 

And if we go back to the Kenwright days, Kenwright would have been there, John Wood would have been there. Yeah. 

Paul: We’ve probably been there, Denise Barrett, Baxendale, et cetera. 

Andy: Yeah, so the board would have been present, win, lose or draw, the board would have been at those games. So it was rumoured this week, or it was touted in the media, that Mashidi was in the UK, because Moshiri was allegedly, in Liverpool, one day this week, allegedly meeting with John Textor. 

So if Moshiri was in the UK this week, why wasn’t he at the game yesterday? I know you can’t answer that, but that is my open -ended question to the owner of the club. If you, Mr Moshiri, were in the UK this week, allegedly for meetings in Liverpool, about which I know nothing, but according to various elements of the media, you were allegedly meeting John Textor, with a view to him becoming a buyer of Everton Football Club. 

If you were in the UK, why weren’t you at Tottenham yesterday? Why were you not there to watch the team that you owe 94 .1% off play in a game? It baffles me. And I suppose the cheaper, the cheaper nasty answer will be, oh well, he was only in Liverpool for 24 hours and he was straight back to wherever he lives in, in the south of France, Monaco or wherever it is. 

And to me that doesn’t cut any mustard. 

Paul: No, no, absolutely not. I mean, you know, throughout this business career, you’ve spent hundreds and hundreds of nights away on business. Because that’s just the nature of people who own businesses on an international basis, of which Moshiri has been one, or manage businesses on an international basis. 

And in that respect, everything should be, should be no different. You’re, you’re Exactly. Lots of lots of other 

Andy: But lots of other boards go to every match. I mean, you know, much as we’ve decried Bill Kenwright over the years, give him his credit, he went to every game. You know, I just find it incomprehensible that Moshiri has appeared at so few Everton games, particularly in the last couple of years. 

Paul: Yep, yep, it’s a good point. Just on the, sorry, meant to say it earlier, just on the Dyche point, and you know, identifying that perhaps he doesn’t have the support around him. That’s not a criticism in any way of Woan or Stones. 

Andy: Yeah, yeah, we involved in stones, yeah. 

Paul: That’s not a reflection or a criticism of them in any way, who I know are very close to him and would no doubt offer him as much support as they’re capable of doing. The question is whether all of that support is enough. 

Andy: make that point. In terms of modern management, it’s got to be one of the smallest management teams, if not the smallest management team, in the Premier League. Guardiola’s got a whole shed full of people. 

Andy: Den Haag’s got a whole shed full of people. I doubt whether Mr Slot has just come in with two of his best mates. He’s probably got a full team of people. He’s got his two trusted people who he’s worked with, and fair play. 

He’s got faith in them and they believe in him. But in modern football terms, that is a very, very small management crew. 

Paul: It is. And also, I think Andy, I think you make a good point about them being, you know, a tight close group, there is a danger that they all think in a similar way. And there is a danger that perhaps they’re not quite as demanding critical 

Andy: that you are inwardly thinking. 

Paul: Yeah. 

Andy: The two in short. 

Paul: And, you know, they may all be thinking along the same lines and quite probably do because they’ve worked together for so many years and, you know, the Dyche style of management, the Dyche style of tactically everything that Dyche does. 

They’re probably pretty, their thought process is probably very consistent with Dyche’s and clearly they must, they must be supportive of the way that Dyche goes about things otherwise they wouldn’t have worked for them for that long. 

But as we all know, because we’ve all, we’ve all worked for a living or we’ve all owned businesses or whatever. And sometimes it’s good to have somebody that has an alternative view. In fact, normally it’s good to have somebody who can offer an alternative view to question rather than just to agree. 

Yeah, I mean, we could and we do, we could go on for hours identifying evidence problems. 

Andy: We don’t want any more problems, we want some solutions. 

Paul: And sometimes we come up with some solutions or at least a thought process that might lead to a solution. It’s really tough at the moment to do that, but one thing we can say and one thing that will always be the case is that we, like almost every other Evertonian, will continue to support our club. Week in, week out, and just from what I witnessed, yesterday at the Tottenham Stadium, the fans will turn up in the same numbers. Perhaps not currently with the same expectation, but with the same numbers. 

And one thing I would say is that the Everton fans reacted most strongly yesterday to Richarlison. This is my sort of closing point. And I think they reacted most strongly to Richarlison because of all the players on the pitch, including all of the Everton players yesterday, the one that they identified most with was Richarlison as against any of the current Everton team. 

And that’s not to say that they’ve abandoned all of the boys in blue, although we weren’t in blue yesterday, obviously. It’s a testament. 

Andy: to the bond that he built with them when he was wearing the blue shirt. 

Paul: Well, two things. It’s testament to the bond that he built, but it’s also a message to Dyche and it’s a message to all the other players that that relationship is open to everybody who represents others in the football club. 

All they have to do is do the stuff that Richarlison did when he was with us. Yeah, worked his socks off. He worked his socks off. He identified with the club. He gave everything. He showed his passion on the pitch and he actually showed his passion off the pitch as well. 

And there’s a lesson in that. You know, this is a fan base. It’s got so much to offer already offers a huge amount as has got but has got so much to offer. We need to be able to identify with the manager and we need like we were talking previously about the relationship between the manager and the fans. 

I question that and I still question it and but also the players as well. You know, it’s it’s I know it’s tough for the players and I know that they’re probably not using the tactics that they might want to use as in and as individuals and they may be concerned about the quality of the squad and everything else. 

But there’s a fan base out there that’s desperate and dying for these guys to do well or at least to do better than they’re currently doing. Yeah. And they’ve got to recognize that and respond to it because there wasn’t really a huge recognition of that yesterday nor was a huge response. 

Paul: And that’s that’s that’s that’s where we are. 

Andy: No. 

Andy: Yeah. Well, we broke it some ground today. 

Paul: So George hasn’t got his sound sorted out. 

Andy: I suspect he’s in a paddling pool with his grandchildren. 

Paul: Probably is, and deservedly so, and he should be, although what image that conjures up I’m not sure. I mean, George in a paddling pool, nothing else. I’m going to finish on this. So yesterday obviously the game was pretty, pretty awful and everything else. 

It was great to see my friends, people who’ve supported me through my illnesses in recent times. People like John Blain, even who I saw and said hello to, that was great. But the funniest thing that happened to me yesterday was, so I’m in London currently. 

I got the tube from, up from Victoria towards the Tottenham ground and there were four or five, maybe six young lads, Evertonians, scousers standing in the Tube packed and I can’t remember which station it was now. 

This guy gets on with an ironing board and he’s obviously bought a ironing board from John Lewis’s or Argos or something else. And he’s standing there with an ironing board and this kid probably is only about 20, 21, looks at him and in a broad scouse accent and says, “hey Mate, you going to a board meeting?” 

Now I found that really funny. Okay. And they found it really funny. They were laughing in the heads of it being a tube in London, of course, nobody else reacted. And the guy himself didn’t know what to do. 

But that to me was probably the highlight of the day. And if everybody’s listening to these things, what the hell is he talking about? And if he thinks that’s the highlight, well, that’s a reflection on the day itself. 

Andy: You can’t beat a bit of scouse wit. 

Paul: So there you go. Right. Well, George, we’ll be back with us next week, I hope. And yeah, maybe we’ll maybe we’ll have some, some better stuff to talk about. Fingers crossed. In the meantime, everybody, thanks for listening. 

Paul:  Thanks for your comments. As always, best wishes to George, hope he’s having a great time. And Andy, thank you so much, as always. 

Andy: Pleasure, Paul. 

Paul: All right, guys. right, Andy. Sorry. Speak to you soon. 

Andy: Cheers. Cheers.