Paul: Good afternoon or good evening depending upon when the world you are and what time of the day you’re listening to this post Aston Villa talking the blues George and Andy welcome to you both back now from the international break and we’ve gone from an international break to heartbreak yet again for Everton how are you both that was not prepared that was off the cuff by the way 

George: That was pretty good, Paul. You’ve obviously been reading poetry. 

Paul: Yeah, let’s not go there. 

George: No. My take on yesterday was that I think there are encouraging signs. I just read an interview with Dominic Calvert-Lewin where he said, keep the faith, keep the faith, don’t worry, we’ll turn this round. 

I think he’s right. I thought the result was correct. The difference between the two teams seemed to be that, to me, Villa thought, no, we just keep playing the way we play. We’ll find a solution to this problem. 

Whereas Everton, even with an amazing start of two goals, kind of play like it might work out. You never know. We could just gotta keep hoping, but there’s no structure or plan there. But, you know, Dominic missed one chance and then hit the crossbar. 

So we were that close and with a bit of luck, one of those will go in and the result will be different. I will worry if Leicester beat us easily. But it seems to me that along the way, things are getting better. 

And I think all this leakage of goals, I’ve just read a ridiculous thing that said Dyche wanted to drop Jordan Pickford. That doesn’t make any sense at all. Is that Branthwaite must come back soon. 

And I think the whole thing was steady once he’s there. And I’m impressed with Jake O’Brien, who’s balanced. He played out of position at right back at the end of the game yesterday. And he was pretty impressive, I thought. 

And having said that, I was not impressed at all with Mr Mangala, who doesn’t look fit and shouldn’t be there. And whilst I understand why Beto is on the bench, the substitutions yesterday, he took off the two most effective players we had to put on Lindstrøm, who played well and Beto, who can’t play well.

So there are things that, you know, that we can’t fix unless you just go, sorry, you’re not going to get a game. But I think there are encouraging signs there. I think they are a better team than us, and the result was correct. 

But I think Dominic’s right. I think this run will come to an end in a bit. And I think it will come to an end when Branthwaite is back. That’s my true premise. 

Paul: Wow. Oh, thanks. You surprised me. I expected a slightly different response from you, to be honest. 

George: Apparently my brother was spitting biscuits, so have a go with him. 

Andy: I’m glad you’ve waited till today to ask me that. Last night would not have been a good idea. I would agree that there were some encouraging signs yesterday, as there were in the game against Bournemouth, for 88 minutes, or 87 minutes. 

I think where things actually went a little bit wrong yesterday was when Mykolenko got injured and had to go off, and the adjustment then, probably quite rightly, was to switch Ashley Young from the right to the left, because he’s more accustomed to playing at left back if he has to play in the back door. 

And I think that actually was proven in his performance. I think I’ve mentioned it a couple of times in text messages to you, I could, that actually Young didn’t have a bad game at all yesterday. Once he’d moved right to left, the problem was, he replaced Young at right back with a midfielder, when he’s got a defender on the bench, who you’ve just highlighted, that when he came on late on in the game, 

gave us that balance, and he is a natural defender, O ‘Brien, and he acquitted himself well at right back when he came on. So the question I would have with Sean Dyche is, I know it was early in the game when Mykolenko got hurt, and putting James Garner on to play it right back, and obviously to push forward when he can, would appear to be a proactive move. 

But, unfortunately, he got caught out of position, and understandably caught out of position, for the first goal, the first Villa goal, because Digne was in oceans of space, and able to get a crossing. 

So that was an issue for me, that we got caught out badly there. The second goal was just a school boy era from Jack Harrison, and we conceded, you can’t legislate for the winner, because that’s a goal that comes out of nowhere. 

But, if you wanted to be hypercritical, where wasn’t he closed down, he’s 30 yards out, surely somebody should have been able to close the gap between, before he gets the shot away, because he took the pass from Barkley, controlled it, and then shot. 

It might only be two, three seconds, but somebody surely has got to try and close him down on, or get in the way. I mean, the quality of the shot was outstanding, and JP did his level best to get there, but he was never going to get to it. 

But I just think that that early change, whilst at the time you think, yeah, Garner will give us a bit more in midfield as well, he was replacing a full back, and everybody’s, a lot of people get so carried away now, that full backs have to be overlapping full backs, and ostensibly second wingers, and this, that, and the other, and that’s obviously what he wanted James Garner to do, he wanted him to defend, 

and then get forward as much as he could, and help them in field, and you know, and be supportive. But it was that lack of experience at right back that ultimately cost us the first goal, and began to change the momentum. 

And I just, it made me wonder later on, that when Mykolenko went off, and he switched Young from right to left, should he have brought O ‘Brien on then? And I just, it just made, I’m not arguing with what you said, no argument at all what you said about the other substitutions. 

Lindstrom maybe could have come on a bit earlier. Beto, you know, bless him, isn’t the answer up front, and anyone who seriously thinks he is, I’m afraid, in my opinion, you deluded. You know, that’s probably going to upset some people, but that’s only my opinion. 

I mean it was just so disappointing yesterday to go to I had said a conversation this morning. a text conversation with somebody this morning who went to Villa Park yesterday who said that even at 2 -0 up after half an hour um there were a lot of Evertonians turning to one another and saying we will hold on to this and that’s that’s really that’s really disappointing to hear and I hope to god it’s wrong because at 2 -0 up we should have we should have gone helpful ever to put that game beyond Villa a third goal before half time would have been game over and as our kid said you know all right after Watkins pulled one back before half time if if DCL had not got that awkward second touch as he tried to get round the goalie um then three one probably would have been game over or would have certainly given us a lot more breathing space but it’s just it’s it’s tiny things isn’t it it’s it’s it’s little things small margins all the time you know Garner so yeah I can see I can see why he did it was it the right thing defensively clearly not um 

George: What was your take on it, old Paul? 

Paul: I thought before we scored, it was almost like a repeat of the beginning of the Tottenham game whereby we sit off so much and we don’t pressure the ball, we don’t pressure the opposition when they’re on the ball, we give them time and space. 

I’m really worried. I mean, okay, we scored two very, very good goals and at times we played some quite nice football higher up the pitch, which has been quite unusual for us. But defensively and from a midfield point of view, looking at us defensively, we are all over the shot and I know that we’re short of people and people playing, and especially when Mykolenko went off with illness rather than injury. 

You know, when he went off, it sort of made things even worse. But we’re just too easy to play against. I think it comes back to this idea with Sean Dyche, you know, this sort of very defensive setup. 

Keep it tight, make sure that you don’t concede goals. Well, that’s okay as long as you don’t concede goals, but then when you do concede goals, where do you go? And we’ve talked about this before. I think his tactics are, frankly, they belong to a different age. 

Football these days is about pace, it’s about getting the ball forward. Yes, it’s about keeping possession for possession based teams. But we’re still not doing any of that. How can you possibly, I think, how can you possibly expect to win a game in modern football when you don’t at least compete for possession, when you don’t at least have, you know, let’s say even for an away team, 45% of the possession, 

The idea that you can go into a game and concede 75, 80% possession and still come away with a result, even if that result is a draw, I think is rapidly being proven to be an outdated philosophy. And I just don’t see from Dyche, notwithstanding the fact that we looked a little bit better at the pitch and, you know, MacNeil playing in a central role, DCL had a very good game, notwithstanding the two chances that he missed, 

Although he still looked isolated at times. I just think this style of football is, even if we had our best 11 players on the pitch, is completely non competitive these days. And I think, you know, much better managers, much more tactically astute managers, much better technically aware managers are just finding it incredibly easy to play against. 

And that’s I think, what’s happening with Dyche’s evidence. He talked about small margins, he talked about, you know, and obviously, we could talk all day long about the problems that we’ve got within the squad, the lack of depth within the squad caused by many, many reasons, not one of which is actually having to sell our best players because of the ownership situation. 

But I still don’t think I still don’t think we’re getting anything like what we should be able to get out of, albeit a small squad, a squad of professional footballers. It’s not as if we’re, you know, just throwing youngsters on and they’re being naive and losing out in naivety. 

Dyche’s philosophy is to pack the team with as much experience as possible. But if you’re not allowing them then to compete in a modern game, where you’re conceding possession all the time, where because you don’t have your best defense out, you’re tending to defend very tightly. 

And you’re tending to give and because we don’t have a particularly strong midfield, you’re tending to give up an awful lot of space, either side of the penalty area in front and, you know, beyond the 18-yard line. 

And we’re allowing too much space on both flanks, but particularly on our right flank, the opposition’s left flank, for crosses to come in the box. And then if you’ve not got your top centre half pairing available, we’re always going to concede goals to crosses. 

And it seems at the moment, in a sense it’s almost wrong to keep criticising Keane, because he is trying, I think he tries his best, but he’s just not good enough. And that goal, where he concedes a header at the back post, how many times have you seen that throughout his career? 

Andy: I think that one’s disappointing too. Is it ever going to change? 

Paul: No, it’s not ever going to change. I’m sorry, I answered my own question and I just don’t know why Dyche thinks it can change and why Dyche is not, well maybe it’s just not capable of doing so, of exploring alternative ways of playing because I don’t think, I don’t think we can keep enough clean sheets and I don’t think we can score enough goals. 

I know we scored two goals in each of the last two games but that’s irrelevant if we concedet three. And how many, we’ve considered, how many? 13. Well, 3-0, 4-0, 3-2, 3-2. We’ve considered 13 goals already in four games. 

Extrapolate that out over a season and we’re conceding over 120 goals in a season. No team stays up if they concede that level. Now it’s unlikely that we, well one assumes it’s unlikely that we will continue to concede that level of goals. 

But what has to change in order for us not to concede that number of goals and, you know, Villa were okay yesterday, don’t think it was their best performance by any stretch of their imagination, you know, their manager was looking pretty upset through most of the first half. 

Even if defensively we improve, we’re still probably on course for conceding, well if it improved by 30% we’re still likely to concede two goals a game on average throughout the season. Our manager who throughout his career has only played, you know, has only scored less than one goal a game. 

Andy: Mm hmm. 

Paul: in the Premier League. And I think you just have to look at it from that perspective. What can possibly change under Sean Dyche? That means that we, A, can compete in terms of possession, B, and continue to do what we actually have done in recent weeks, score a couple of goals. 

But in playing that slightly looser fashion further up front, when we lose possession, we look as if we’re going to concede. 

George: The other thing that I noticed yesterday was when, you know, when we had to chase the game at 2-1 and 3-2, especially  -2, they couldn’t. We hadn’t got the energy or the push to really make Villa hurry and, you know, get the ball back higher up the pitch earlier on, earlier. 

Yeah. Yeah. 

Paul: Agree with that, George. And the two times when DCL broke free in the second half, people can say, well, yeah, he played really well. And he did well to receive the ball and get the ball into the penalty areas to create the chance. 

But the fact is, he didn’t score either of the chances. So if you’re minimalizing the opportunity to score in terms of the number of chances, then you’re minimalizing the conversion of chances to goals. 

That means you’re not going to score many goals. 

Andy: Thank you. 

Paul: And who is it in the club that can point out these, you know, very, I’m not, you know, I’m no tactician with regards to football, but these very basic fundamental points to somebody like Sean Dyche, who firmly believes that what he’s doing is the best way of managing the resources he’s got and the best way of setting teams up. 

But it’s a style of football, as I say, I think, this is just my own opinion, it is a style of football that was relatively successful in terms of survival for Burnley, proved last season to be successful for Everton in terms of survival. 

But this season, so far, because we’re conceding so many goals, doesn’t seem to be likely to allow us to survive. So what you then have to ask the question, what is it that you think that Dyche can do that will change things to a stop us conceding so many goals, and B, in stopping us conceding so many goals, doesn’t reduce the threat that we offer in scoring goals? 

George: Well, in purely practical terms of answering that question, when is Branthwaite back? No idea. And when is Mykolenko back? What’s wrong with him? What’s the news on him? 

Paul: Well, as I say, I think it was explained as an illness. He felt ill. So hopefully if it’s an illness, you know, it’s something that you might not play in the Carabao up, but, you know, you might be ready for the last again. 

George: Who have we got in the Carabao cups? Yeah. At Goodison? Yeah. 

Andy: Yeah. 

George: on Tuesday. Right. Well, you know, I mean, I’m getting a bit fed up because we keep saying the same things and, and Sean Dyche isn’t listening. I mean, what’s going on here? But O ‘Brien should start and I’m pretty certain he won’t and he should. 

Andy: So you’ve had O ‘Brien’s… 

George: starting v Southampton? Yes, with that question. I think the kids should be on there with one of the best centres we’ve ever had, Tarkowski, teaching him his trade, learning his trade. You know, if we’ve lost four games in the swear bucket, if we’ve lost four games in a row, what have we stood still for? 

I’m not blaming Michael Keane, but O ‘Brien and or Branthwaite of the future. Move on, please. You know, why was Young starting yesterday at all? You’re right, he did play well at left back. But why wasn’t Dixon on the pitch? 

Andy: Yeah. You play very well at Tottenham, yeah. And where’s Paterson? 

George: Well, perhaps he’s still injured, isn’t he? And, you know, to all intents and purposes, apparently it doesn’t like him, but that’s another end of there. That’s just, you know, could be gossip and trouble. 

Andy: Exactly, whether he likes him or not, if he’s fit, or when he’s fit, surely he has to come into contention, because we can’t select a side on who the manager, well, clearly we do select, clubs do select on who the manager likes and who the manager doesn’t like, not just Everton, all sorts of clubs, but we’re in a situation now where we need points, we need to get going, and he has to put any personal differences to one side and pick the strongest starting 11 and the strongest possible bench to support that 11 every single game. 

This is fine. You’re absolutely right. Once Branthwaite is fit, he’s itching to start. Now, does he start with Tarkowski? Does he start with O ‘Brien? Does he start with both of them? Does he go to three at the back and push Mykolenko on the left or Coleman and Patterson or Dixon a bit further forward on the right? 

Maybe Branthwaite with Tarkovsky in the middle and O ‘Brien on the right as a back three, might be the answer. I don’t know, but he’s got it. He’s got to do something, and as and when Patterson’s fit, then if he’s the fittest of the available right backs, he plays. 

And if he isn’t, then somebody else plays, whether it’s Coleman, Dixon or whoever. But if we’re suggesting that, or if anybody’s suggesting that he’s picking the side on who he likes, then have some help. 

George: I didn’t mean it in that sense, but I mean, because I don’t know whether he liked that. And I mean, he likes him as a player, is what I meant. But the point, the point that you’re struggling, you know, you’re frustrated by and I totally understand he’s exactly the one that Paul just made that what he put out yesterday was what he obviously thinks is the best he’s got, and the best he’s got. 

The fact is, and results will seem to support us rather than him, he’s wrong. And Mangala was a shock to me. I have no idea why he took off Tim and put him on. What for? To see whether he’s as slow on the pictures he is in training. 

I was baffled by that. I hope he gets a lot fitter and a lot and a strange substitution yesterday. 

Paul: I’m gonna revisit something I said last time about Dyche. I mean, obviously, one of the many problems that our football club has at the moment, is who’s actually making these decisions and who does that person talk to in order to gather, you know, a body of evidence in order to make an informed decision. 

But I think I think I think we’ve got to ask ourselves before we get much further into the season, whether we think Dyche can see us through the season and see us staying in the Premier League. And I think that, you know, sadly, that has to be the only objective of the season. 

And based on the evidence of this season, and based on the back end of last season, dice sometimes, you know, we’ve said this before, he’s a streaky manager, you know, we won those three games on the run, didn’t we, at the beginning of the year. 

But if you actually look through just 2024, we’ve played 24 games, we’ve won six, we’ve drawn eight, and we’ve lost the rest. So we’ve lost half the games. That’s 26 points from 24 games. Is that enough to keep you in the league? 

Possibly. Do we really want to be taking that chance? Because, you know, our form, well, you know, our form is loss, loss, loss, loss, loss, because we lost the last game of the season, so five losses. 

And then we won a game drawn, then we won those three games on the run, loss, one drawn, loss, loss, loss, drawn, drawn, loss, drawn, drawn, one, drawn, drawn. I don’t think that’s good enough to keep you in the league. 

And, you know, it’s really difficult to say who is it that’s going to make these decisions because it’s unlikely to be Kevin Thelwell, although probably his opinion is sought, but he doesn’t have the authority to make these decisions. 

Is it really Farhad Moshiri, who, you know, we’ve not seen? So it’s certainly not Colin Chong. 

Andy: but there’s nobody else because the other guy that isn’t The only person that’s expressed an opinion about 

Paul: Sean Dyche, from an Everson perspective in recent weeks or even months, is John Textor. 

who happens to be part owner of Crystal Palace, ludicrously. But who else publicly has expressed an opinion about Dyche? In all seriousness, I mean, in a sense, it’s almost a sort of comedic point, but that’s the reality of it. 

Who’s gonna make the decision that says, or who’s even gonna go into Dyche’s  office on Monday, or invite him out for dinner in Nottingham, where he lives, and there’s a very nice three-star, Michelin restaurant in Nottingham, and sit down with him and say, ”Sean, what are we gonna do that makes a difference to, I don’t know, between now and the end of November, for argument’s sake, whatever, 

the next six games, so that we get a third of the way through the season or a quarter of the way through the season, we played nine or 10 games, what number of points are we gonna be on and how are you gonna achieve that? 

Who is gonna do that? Nobody, there is nobody there to do it. So, Sean either, if he wants the advice of other people, has nobody to tend to, or if indeed he mistakenly, as I believe, believes that he’s doing the right thing, he’s just not working for us at this moment in time, he continues to do what he’s doing. 

And we end up in a situation whereby we will have gone through, if it’s 10 games, we will have gone through slightly more than a quarter of the season, nearly a third of the season, and we’ll still be at or around the bottom of the table. 

And we, as a football club, first of all, our fans don’t deserve it, but as a business, we can’t afford to be in that position. 

Andy: Mm. 

Paul: Not only in terms of what we earn this year and successive years of lower league positions means less and less revenue for the club. So our competitive position deteriorates each year because of all of the clubs above us that earn my money. 

But with the very real fear of if we drop out of this division, particularly given the position that we will have at the end of June next year with regards to our squad when so many other, you know, when so many players are as a contract and the manager and the director of football, if they’re still there, are as a contract and possibly the ownership issue not resolved. 

What exactly are we planning on doing? Nobody can answer those questions, I know, but 

George: No, exactly. I’m just about to say that. You’re asking questions that I’d be amazed if there’s any evertonian listening to you because, well, I know what the answer to that is because I have no idea who’s supposed to make the petition. 

Well, I know who’s supposed to make them, but there’s no track record of believing in anything that that person has done. Does that make things worse? I don’t know. I don’t know where you go from here. 

What, in essence, you’re saying is it’s time up on Dyche, but who on earth is going to make that decision and who on earth is going to choose somebody better? And which better person is going to look at the author chaos of Everton football and go, that’s a good idea. 

Why don’t I go there? Except a prospective manager who’d look at the track record of how much Everton’s managers have made under Moshiri, which has been King’s ransom. 

Paul: Yeah, I don’t know if this is unpopular as many Evertonians and quite a few people reminded me after the last TtB, but if we want to take a belt, you know, belt and braces approach to this and just say, actually, all we need to do is make sure that we’re still in the division so that we go into the new stadium next season as a Premier League club. 

Then we go to David Moyes and say, what’s your price? 

George: Haven’t they already done that Paul? There was talk before the international break that Moyes had been approached and there’s a silence that would suggest to me that if they, if anybody has spoken to him, why wouldn’t they speak to him? 

That’s not the worst idea you’ve ever heard. He’s gone, not me pal. 

Paul: Then you have to make it, well, you either have to decide that somebody else is more suitably qualified, or equally qualified, or you have to make it so attractive to that individual, in this case David Moyes, that they can’t refuse it. 

George: But have we got the money for those kind of crazy deals anymore? 

Paul: Well, we haven’t got the money to be relegated and, you know, at the end of the season or even the January window, uh, it gets back to, well, we, you know, we can sell Branthwaite. 

George: Yeah, I’m sure that’s. 

Paul: That’s the last basically the last card that we’ve got but I think if you sat down with the board such as it as it exists and so and if you said to him today would you take this deal the price of staying in the Premier League is that we sell Branthwaite and that allows us to bring Moyes in or after all Moyes in already offering a substantial contract with substantial bonuses for staying in the league would you take that and I think any board member of any board given Everton’s position would say yes now obviously there’s no guarantees bringing David Moyes in isn’t going to guarantee survival you know I accept that readily but I genuinely and I’m you know I’m happy people wanted to disagree but all I would ask if you disagree with that as a solution give me what give them tell me what you think the alternative better solution is you know that that’s sensible that that we can actually achieve um because I I can’t I can’t think of what 

Andy: No, neither can I. I can’t think of any manager of the kind of the level we need who’s available. I’m sure there are. Names don’t come readily to mind. I mean, Moyes is the obvious name to put in the frame, but… 

George: Graham Potter. 

Andy: don’t think well there is I suppose yeah Potter but I’m not so sure that I’m not so sure that Potter could handle the pressure of our crowd 

Paul: How would you characterize Graham Potter as a manager? 

George: That brilliance at Brighton couldn’t cope on, you know, rabbit in the headlights at Old Trafford. I would also say the same thing about David Moyes, brilliant at Everton. Couldn’t cope with it when he got to a higher level at Manchester United as he perceived it to be. 

Paul: but also successful at West Ham. 

George: Yes, very, you know, he won a European trophy, but 

Paul: If your wish list was, I’m sorry to keep banging on, I’m not paid by David Moyes to bang on  

George: the rest of hope here, go on. 

Paul: And if the wish list was, bring somebody in who first of all knows how to run a Premier League club. Secondly, can fill in all of the gaps because of the lack of board expertise that we have, lack of board personnel that we have. 

We don’t have a very strong director of football. Somebody who can bring in, because obviously they bring in their own team, can bring in people who are experienced in football, have done this, seen it, done it before. 

Somebody that can give us identity, somebody that can absolutely get the best out of the players that are available to us. If that’s the wish list, answers on the postcard please is to who meets those requirements. 

Andy: When you put it like that, then my mind is probably the only option because it’s well known that when he was managing the level, he ran the club to all intents and purposes. He only answered to Bill Kenwright. 

Paul: So if you’re, if you’re, um, Farhad Moshiri, or, as seems to be the case with, um, with John Textor, there’s somebody who is interested in buying the club and therefore feels the right to, uh, comment on, on the manager. 

Maybe he has some ideas as to who the next manager might be, uh, or maybe not, but I would, I would, I would, I would be, well, I am, I would be asking note the question who do you think, including the current incumbent, including, uh, Dyche, who do you think is best suited to, to tick those boxes? 

Because I don’t think we can, I don’t think we can just sit here and just hope that things get better. And it actually, if the decision is that it, it remains Dyche, then somebody has to sit down with Dyche and say, let’s take two or three days, maybe it’s the next international break, let’s sit down in a room, let’s work out exactly where we are, what our strengths and weaknesses are, and what exactly your plan is for the next six months. 

Because it might be the case, and I don’t know, I’m just speculating, it might be the case that actually Dyche needs some direction. It might be the case that Dyche is, uh, you know, at a point in his career, where he needs some leadership above him. 

We talked about it and we praised him last year for carrying the club. Maybe, maybe he’s been carrying the club for too long. Maybe he actually, he’s the person that actually needs, it might be depending upon the subject person that he is, it might be an arm around his shoulder, I don’t think it is, or it might be somebody to, to, you know, spell out the harsh realities of the situation, tell him that he’s got the tools within himself to do the job that’s needed doing, 

and encourage him. Give him the, maybe renew his confidence, maybe, maybe, maybe just by saying to him, like, you’ve done this before, you can do it again, um, all we’re asking for is to do it one more time. 

Whatever the conversation is, and obviously we’re not in, in, in the room and we don’t know what the circumstances, truly what the circumstances are, but that needs to be happening now and it needs to be happening, not in two weeks, three weeks, four weeks it happened. 

It needs to be happening now. And the question is, who’s going to do that? 

George: And the answer to that, as best we all know, is nobody. Because the personality and everything doesn’t change. So if Kevin Thelwell were going to do that, he should have done it. I don’t believe Wellman and Stone are going to go, right, sit down, Sean, stop wiping snots on your head and listen to us. 

I don’t believe that’s going to happen. If Moshiri tipped up to give him a talking to, Dyches would have every reason to go, who are you? And show me what you know. Colin Chung is a site manager and the other two people don’t exist. 

You’re asking, you know, that it’s an impossible question because there is no answer to it at Everton at the moment. You know, the worst thought I had yesterday was, I wonder if Dyche would resign. And then somebody would have to make a decision about a change in leadership. 

I wouldn’t blame Sean Dyche for one second if he went, kiss my ass. Of course, I’m not going to do that. Why should I? I’ve got, you know, la, la, la, la. But that’s the thought that crossed my mind, because I can’t see anybody doing what you’re talking about, which is taking the ball by the horns one way or the other and trying to find a solution to the fact that we are bottom of the league, no points, 

Minus nine. 

Paul: But let’s be clear, Dyche’s not going to do that. 

George: No, I’m. 

Paul: And one of the reasons why Dyche is not going to do that, if my information is correct and it’s been said by others that, you know, if Dyche was to be fired this season, his contract expires at the end of the season, but if he was to be fired before that, he’s due another 12 month salary. 

And if that’s wrong, I apologize to the club and I apologize to Dyche, but to the best of my information, it’s accurate. So there’s no incentive for Dyche to walk away. Dyche’s reputation wouldn’t be enhanced by him walking away. 

If he stays at the club till the end of the season and we get relegated, he’s in a sense he’s already starting to prepare the ground by explaining all the reasons why it’s difficult. He would just continue down that line that, you know, I did it at Burnley, I did it last season at Everton, but, you know, frankly, with all of the ownership issues, with the strength of the squad not being able to get the players in that I wanted, having to take players that I didn’t want. And this is the reason why we didn’t do it. And, you know, the Dyche caravan would roll on. 

George: How can you have any faith in anything other than that’s exactly what’s going to happen. And we’ll be here in a week time and maybe we’ll get a slouchy draw at Leicester and we’ll point to that like a drowning man to a piece of straw and a life raft and all that stuff and open, open, open, open, open up. 

But leadership at almost every level of that club now. marketing organization, publicity, board level, and on the workshop floor seems to be as low as it’s been that I can remember for a very, very long time. 

And yeah, I have no faith that anything’s going to change. I hope it does. I hope I’m wrong. Nobody would be happier than me. But, you know, it made me happy. But I, everything will go on as it is, Paul. 

Kind of like a voice in the world, three of us, we’ve seen the wilderness and I’m sure we’re not the only ones. I’m sure they don’t 

Paul: I don’t think we’re the only ones and I think… 

Andy:  We can’t be, can we? We can’t be. Surely there can’t be anybody out there who’s remotely close to being satisfied or got a bit happy with the way things are. 

George: Yeah. 

Andy: And that just doesn’t make any kind of sense whatsoever, so therefore most everybody should be ever similar thinking to ourselves in that this dramatic changes have to happen and some dramatic decisions have to be made, but in the absence of anybody to make them, we we we 

George: It won’t be. 

Andy: no we just we just limp on in the vein hope that we can pick some points up in Leicester and and get get past Southampton on Tuesday and yeah there’s a bit deeper into the karaoke cup 

George: Yeah, you know, or if someone at Calvert Loom was joining us, it goes in instead of out of the crossbar. 

Andy: Yeah, yeah. 

George: He’s right to say it’s fine margins, but somehow you earn your luck too, I’m not sure we’re doing that. 

Andy: There’s too many fine margins going the other way, aren’t we? 2 -0 up with three minutes to go and we lose 3 -2. 2 -0 up with half an hour gone and we lose 3 -2. 

Paul: Can I, can I throw, throw in a positive? Please do. And, and, and, sorry, this, this is not, I sometimes think that people might think I’m being held hostage and the only way that you might know that I’m being held hostage is I send out a positive message. 

And if this was on video, I’m blinking furiously so that, you know, there’s something wrong, it’s not like that at all. And it was pointed out to me by somebody who, whose job it is to observe these things, that the behaviour of the Everton support base, those that attended the game yesterday was absolutely exemplary, that for, obviously, the game was always 10 up 3,000 that were there. 

But for the second successive game, and then when you think about the Tottenham game before that, to go to an away game, some people had difficulty getting into the ground because of ticketing issues outside whatever the, you know, the scanning system, what wasn’t working and it caused problems before the game. 

But the behaviour of the 3,000 Evertonians was absolutely exemplary. And that I was asked by this person who will have remained anonymous, just to point out that the support base and the away support week in week out, but particularly this weekend are an absolute, I’m not going to put it, they, they’re an absolute credit to the club and to the city of Liverpool. 

George: And I’m afraid my brain goes to really which part of the club deserves that credit. 

Paul: And yeah, I mean the club has got very little to do with it, obviously. 

Andy: No, the fans deserve the credit. 

Paul: The fans deserve the credit. Yeah, I’m sorry. I was hoping that I’d make that clear. 

Andy: they travel in such numbers every week they’ve been treated to well a shellacking at Spurs and another defeat yesterday and we’ve been talking about specifically and about the travelling fans you know they’ll be there week in week out and they are and deserve they are an enormous credit to have at the football club and they deserve an enormous credit for their steadfastness in continuing to go in such numbers and offer that vocal support and physical support 

George: I’m not disagreeing with that, Andy. I’m just being very, very cynical about what it’s about. 

Andy: I know the cynicism isn’t towards the fans, it’s towards the club. 

George: No, no, absolutely not towards the fans. I’m just wondering what they, you know, oh, I’m sick to death of it, and they’re driving me mad. But, you know, Paul covered it before, but he’s right. They’re so silent about everything. 

Here we are in a dreadful, dreadful position. Who’s saying anything? Who’s doing anything? Who’s talking to those fans for us? Nobody. It’s, no, no, no, no, no. 

Paul: So I’ve managed to upset George a little bit and I’m going to upset you a little bit now Andy, because I know Aston Villa probably next to Manchester United are your least favourite. 

Andy: Yeah, I’ve got an awful long grudge against Aston Villa. 

Paul: Any particular reason without knowing that reason beforehand? 

Andy: Yeah, 1977. Ah, okay, yeah. That’s all that needs to be said. And… I’m still having therapy for that. 

Paul: Well, it’s not working, but… 

Andy: No it’s not working. I wanted him buried yesterday. Absolutely buried. 

Paul: So you’re not sympathetic to the idea of all the English football clubs, certainly all the Premier League clubs, that Aston Villa are probably closest to us in terms of identity and history? 

Andy: No, I’m not party to any of that, not whatsoever. 

George: I think he’s right, but go on. 

Andy: Who do you think Paul’s right? 

George: Yeah, well, you know, like I texted you yesterday, the number of the number of players on that pitch who had once played for the other club would suggest that there’s something going on, you know, that there are great similarities between the two. 

Andy: Hang on a minute, let me come right in on that then. What about the number of players who’ve gone backwards and forwards between Everton and Man U? Are you suggesting that there’s a synergy there? 

George: Ooh, I don’t think it’s quite in quite the same numbers he bluffs. Oh, you’re supposed to be doing this. I’m getting shouty that now. 

Paul: Yeah, I think you’ve blushed me in cold air, George. Not me. 

George: Well, the thing about United is, they got all our good ones and we got most of their shit ones. 

Paul: Yeah, that’s definitely true. It is a fact that, you know, Aston Villa v Everton games are the most frequently played top division games in England. 

Andy: Yeah. 

Paul: And second only to Everton playing at home at Goodison, playing Aston Villa, the game at Villa Park is the second most frequently played game in one stadium. That’s a fact. And indeed, it might be the case, although I think you challenged me a few weeks ago about Celtic and Rangers playing their respective games, it may be the most widely played, most frequently played game in World Club Football. 

I haven’t felt quite like Villa supporters, broadly speaking, and that’s probably not going to win me many, many fans here. And I’ve always liked Villa Park. Believe it or not, those people listen. There was a time when I used to go to a lot of  games and semi-finals and stuff. 

I had some great times at Villa Park. 

Andy: That and now that on that point I would completely concur when we’ve been there for semi -finals and progress to Wembley, Villa Park has been a marvelous place to visit on the whole for league games. 

No, I mean obviously the one that comes to mind was the Shidi strike in the championship year that you know when Arthur Goodison was inside Villa Park that was a memorable day but I’ve had too many miserable days at Villa Park over the years so take out the Shidi game and maybe one or two others and take out the cup semi -finals. 

No, I’m not a great lover of Villa Park and I’m still not happy about 1977. 

George: I’ve only been to Villa Pak once, so we trotted in 3 -1, so. And the Villa, you’re right, the Villa fans were good crack. 

Andy: I mean, to be fair, there’s lots of fan bases that you can have a good crap with. I mean, there’s an awful lot of nonsense talked about, you know, about Newcastle, but I’ve always enjoyed going up to Newcastle. 

Sunderland’s a gas. 

Paul: Mm -hmm. 

Andy: I love going up the north-east for the game, but you can have a bad time anyway, down the years we’ve all seen boxing and nonsense and this and that and the other, but at the same time we’ve all had good times with other fan bases. 

Paul: Andy, just a quick one, when you say going up to the north-east, you include Middlesbrough in that. 

Andy: I do include Middlesbrough, but I’ll be honest with you. I’ve only been to Boro once at Ayresome Park, and it was many, many moons ago. And it was actually for a… I don’t know why on earth I went. 

I went with some mates who were city fans. It was Middlesbrough versus City. And it was back in the 70s, it must have been. And I still can’t for the life of me know why I went with them. And we did have a ball, but Ayresome Park was… 

I was never going to rush back there. 

George: And I’ve been to Ayresome is the coldest, most miserable place, the worst, worst coffee and we are a terrible place. 

Andy: Well maybe we should, maybe we should dedicate a podcast to our various favorite or least favorite away venues because it’s some belters isn’t it? 

George: That would come very high on my- 

Paul: I think, I think for a lot of people that’s Ayresome would come pretty close to the top of the list. I can’t really, I can’t really think why Villa would, but that’s just my opinion. I knew you were perfectly insightful to yours, Andy. 

So thank you very much. I will accept yours even if I don’t necessarily agree with that. 

George: It’s  authoritarian of you. 

Paul: Generous soul. So there you go. What else is new? Not a lot really to say on the ownership front. A lot of noise during the week about different things and interesting that it appeared in the media at last about this company Aliya based in Miami, Florida who have raised 25 million pound to assist in Eagle football holdings purchase of Everton and this company is owned or rather is backed by the Sofra family who are very very wealthy individuals certainly probably will certainly within the top 100 wealthiest people in the world or family group within in the world.

Previous founding shareholders of of Twitter backers of Elon Musk, backers of his is it starlight yeah yeah technology and apparently backers of John Texas bid to acquire Everton so that that that was interesting news

Iit was news that I mean it is evident that everything need further funding between now and then end of the season and one of the reasons why this money was raised was to assist with that funding and John Tetor if nothing else seems very determined that he’s going to buy restructuring elsewhere including obviously wanting to sell his Crystal Palace holding because nothing else can happen as far as Everton are concerned at least unless he sells those those palace shares

And I’m still not convinced that he will although he has claimed that he has identified two owners and and hopes to be able to confirm that in a very short period of time what that period of time is and hasn’t been specified but he hopes to do that and in the meantime he’s moving his the company that owns Olympique Lyonnais of the French club which is already listed on the French stock exchange which is relatively small stock exchange in global terms from France to the New York Stock Exchange which would raise money for him and raise money for OL and would allow them to pay down some of the debt that still exists there.

So it’s a very fluid situation with regards to John Textor no one is for a second is doubting his determination and his desire to sell Palace and to buy Everton I think there’s still a question as to how he achieves that both how he achieves the selling of his Palace shares but also how he achieves the the funding of Everton if indeed he was in a position to acquire Everton.

None of which really helps Everton in the short term and I’m really surprised that not more was made of his comments with regards to Sean Dyche because notwithstanding his desire to buy Everton here we have an owner of one football club one Premier League football club talking about the future of a manager in another football club.

And that seems to me to be something that’s been bypassed with all of the other stories that have surrounded this situation and but it is and this is not a reflection or on John Texas it would be the same with anybody else it is yet another example of the uncertainties that lie around Everton at this moment in time the lack of direction provided by Farhad Moshiri and the lack of communication provided by him

And indeed anybody else connected with a football club, none of which either helps a fan base, none of which obviously helps the manager, none of which helps the the squad so you know it’s a bit of a rinse and repeat really we’re asking for things which we’re asking for about off the pitch that we’re asking for on the pitch you know in terms of certainty in terms of direction in terms of communication and this is I think this is just a you know a continuation of the same same theme really 

Andy: So, please. 

Paul: Yeah. 

Andy: Very subtle. 

Paul: I don’t know, I don’t really know what more you can say about it. 

Andy: No, it just seems to have been a never-ending, as you said, rinse and repeat for the last three or four years really. 

Paul: Yeah, to be fair to John Textor, and I’m trying to be balanced here, you know, probably he’s spoken out of  term, but he has spoken about his desire to buy everything which, how that works with Crystal Palace fans, goodness only knows. 

And he has said nice things about the Football Club and he’s said promising things about the direction in which he wants to take our Football Club should he get to that position. And in one sense, I suppose that should be welcomed because it’s not something that we’ve heard from anybody else, for many years, from perhaps the early stages of Farhad Moshiri’s ownership when he talked about the club not wanting the club to be a museum. 

It’s the first time I’ve actually heard anybody who might be an owner come out with any comments as to where he wants the club, he or she wants the club to be in the future. And that’s obviously very welcomed, very welcomed by Evertonians, but it’s not really helpful unless actually you know he’s in a position to do what he wants to do. 

Andy: Exactly. Until there’s some meat on the bones of the ownership situation in divesting of his shares in Palace, it’s just gossip, isn’t it really? 

George: What did he say about Dyche? 

Paul: I don’t have the direct quotes in front of me, George, sorry. 

George: We’ll take the one about, I’m not sure he would cope with the level of players I bring in. 

Paul: It might have been I don’t really want to comment when I don’t have it in front of me, but okay. I understand. It was certainly questioning whether Dyche would be the right manager for him if he owned a club, basically. 

And apologize for paraphrasing it, but I think that was the gist of the comments. 

Andy: Well, it might not be a million miles away from the way we’re thinking at times. 

Paul: Well, yeah, I mean, I suppose one might argue it’s hardly an original thought, is it, depends, in time. But yeah, that’s where we are. I mean, all of the other issues with regards to Everton, nothing’s really changed. 

Nothing’s changed in terms of the 777/ACAP legal case. And in fact, if anything has changed in that, the dates have been pushed out a little bit more. So an immediate resolution of that seems very unlikely. 

And of course, there was a bit of news. I suppose this is the other thing that’s changed since we last spoke. There was confirmation that Alisher Usmanov has taken Farhad Moshiri’s case in what is a relatively junior court within the Moscow court system. 

But he’s taken him to the Moscow Court of Arbitration, which can only confirm, and we don’t see the details of the case. But whenever anybody takes anybody to the Court of Arbitration, it is confirmation of the fact that there is one, a dispute. 

So there is obviously a dispute between Usmanov and Moshirii, and two, that neither parties are able to come to an acceptable agreement between themselves, which is therefore the need, why it is necessary to go to a Court of Arbitration, where basically you are providing evidence, you’re providing the basis of your argument, whatever side of the argument you’re on, and then you’re asking a court to make a decision, 

Because we’re not able, we the two warring parties, are not able to reach the conclusion that satisfies both. So you’re asking the Court of Arbitration, it doesn’t matter whether it’s in Russia or anywhere else, to make a decision on your behalf. 

And as I say, we don’t know the details of it, but we do know, and it is confirmation and something that we’ve hinted to on this podcast in the past, that the relationship between Moshiri and Usmanov is not what it once was. 

Andy: Well, there we go. 

George: We are Coronation Street really, isn’t it? 

Paul: Yeah, it’s just another example of, you know, where we are as a club under the ownership of Moshiri. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Well, apart from the behaviour of the Everton football fans. 

Andy: Yeah, which is exactly where we’ve slept up there in the park. 

Paul: The stadium continues along its merry way in terms of being built. And I’m just trying to think of some sort of, you know, something to balance out, the never ending and tales of woe. That’s it. 

Paul: Another Talking the Blues. 

Andy: We really do need to get to talking the pies around the ground, the best pies in the football league, because everybody has a pie at the football ground, so we need to get, never mind the footage. 

Paul: For me, there’s only one clear winner in that. 

George: Go on. 

Paul: Have you ever, ever had a pie at Loftus Road? 

George: This is going to be controversial. What? Say again. 

Paul: Have you ever had a pie at Loftus Road? 

Andy: I had a burger there 

Paul: No, no, I’m asking about, you ask about pies, next week we can talk about burgers. 

George: Well, quite right, Paul. Keep this thing on track. 

Paul: That’s the type of wooly thinking that ends up, you know. 

George: and they’re eating burgers at Loftus Road. 

Andy: I must have had a pie at Loftus Road. I’ve been to Loftus Road four or five times so I must have had a pe there. I would be mortified if I hadn’t. 

Paul: Hmm you should be because they’re fantastic 

Andy: All right. 

George: Well, is that what you’re doing, am I right? I was only going to say, when last time Andy and I went to Wigan, we made a point of having a pie. They were terrible. What a pie publicity. They were absolutely cack. 

It was bad, man. 

Paul: Yeah, I know this for a fact. You have great culinary experience of Scottish pies. 

Paul: of football grounds, yeah. 

George: Yeah, this is true. And they are head and shoulders over, seriously, over every premiership club I’ve been to, which seems to me to be devoted to separating you from your money, like going to Blackpool or something. 

But go to Ayr United, never mind the football, just queue up for your lunch. Brilliant. And so was our bro. Arbroath Smokies. Yeah, man. 

Andy: Yeah. 

Paul: I once played football on Ayr United’s pitch, but that’s a totally different story. 

George: Was it artificial then? 

Paul: No, no, this is like in the early 80s. Right. Anyway, let’s not, let’s not go there. Let’s finish off. I think, I think, I think we’ve probably covered enough. And if anybody else has got any pie suggestions, well, you know, let’s hear them. 

Andy: Pies of the football league, that’s what we want. 

George: It used to be good at Everton, I mean, to come what they were told now. 

Paul: and it’s just Pukka pies. 

Andy: Good pie. It was. Pukka used to be, but it wasn’t the one before Pukka. 

Paul: I should put it out there, Andy. 

Andy: Well, somebody will know. Who made the pies at Everton back in the 70s? There you go. That’s your homework. Audience. Someone back to know who supplied the pies. 

George: The steak and kidneys were good. You can always tell when you come to the meat potato ones and they’re full of gristle you just go, pack it in. This is shoddy. But the steak and kidney ones at Goodison were good. 

Andy: Yeah. And Hgsons in a cardboard cup. 

George: Absolutely, yeah, that you threw at the ref after. Well, that was the one thing I wanted to say last night about the match yesterday. I wondered, just for a split second, if when the players came off and calmed down and, you know, got over the disappointment with a return to O ‘Brien and went, there you go, you’ve got your first Paulson yellow card for absolutely Jef All. 

That’s what we get when we play for Everton. He was ridiculous. That full back of Villa’s who came on and flattened Ashley Young. 

Andy: Yeah. 

George: And when you saw it on the replay, you could see him going, I’m just going to give you one son. And he did. And to be fair to you, he got him back. But it was a yellow report. Do anything now, you know. 

Andy: What was the one I text you about in the first hour, the hand ball?. 

George: Yeah. 

Andy: You know, surely that’s a deliberate attempt to gain an advantage. So why isn’t it a yellow card? 

George: Answer because of the ref ref’s name, please. Awesome. OK. Pies. 

Paul: Do I have to edit this and just stick it in the front parts of the podcast? 

George: Yeah, absolutely. No! No, this is the whole point. We’re completely random. 

Paul: Yeah, we definitely know it’s alive and I think most people understand by now that there’s no editing 

Andy: origin. 

Paul: There’s zero preparation at all. What’s the boys yet to be? Yeah, there you go. All right, guys, thank you so much. Thank you, everybody, for listening. And yeah, well, the fun and merriment continues. 

And beyond that, you will paste them and beyond that, everything I’m playing as well, so there you go. Just thank you. 

Andy: Cheers. 

Paul: Don’t tell me I haven’t. Rebecca, please tell me you’ve recorded this. Oh no. Oh yes, she has.