Please find the transcript of yesterday’s Talking the Blues Podcast with George and Andy Costigan, we hope those that find reading easier than listening enjoy our thoughts – thanks for reading:

Paul: Good morning, good afternoon or good evening depending on when the world you are and what time of the day you’re listening to this episode, a joyous episode of Talking the Blues, Andy and George how are you both? 

Both: Yes, good thanks. 

Paul: Good a week ago we were sort of tearing our hair out with regard to results with regards to whether we were going to get taken over or not and it seems like we’ve had two results in one week.

George: Yeah man. 

Paul: So where should we start? What about yesterday? Crystal Palace. We should play Crystal Palace every week. Well that isn’t my show Crystal Palace fan I suppose. I must say at half time I wasn’t expecting or anticipating a very joyous Talking the Blues because let’s get the grim stuff out of the way first. 

I thought the first half performance was one of the worst I’ve ever seen from an Everton team. I don’t think I’m over exaggerating. I feel justified in saying that. How about you two? 

I thought it was shapeless and aimless and it was 11 guys out on the pitch who didn’t appear to be on the same page with one another but thankfully they got it much much better after the break and after the break they did play some decent stuff but the thing that got me was they went back into the show again. 

Having come from behind and got two on up with two really good goals, two excellent goals, they allowed Palace back into the game and I just thought when are they going to go for the jugular? I mean it’s churlish really because we got the win that we needed. 

We’ve been needing that and we got it so we should be happy and I guess we are happy but there was elements of the game and as you said first up it was I just found its shapeless, I couldn’t figure out what they were trying to do, how they were trying to play but I guess you know the break came at the right time and whatever was said in the dressing room by whoever said it appeared to have the desired effect. 

I just wish it was all behind. 

Paul: Maybe we’ll get on to who said it in a few minutes. George, what were your impressions? 

George: Well, nothing much different to what you said. The first half was enjoyable watching Palace play because this is a team that clearly knows how he wants to play. And like Andy said, everything is like a team kind of go, we try this, we try that. 

And it was interesting to watch that guy who’s secured the middle of the England defense completely lock up DCL and make him look. Worthy, but, you know, it’s not not a big problem. And then, you know, it seemed to me, and I’m going to assume it was Dyches, you said all this, that, you know, right, boys, play it along. 

Get into, get up to their box. Never mind all this footy stuff. Belt it down the field and put some pressure on the back on them. And, you know, luckily for him, within three minutes, McNeil’s leveled the game and then that lovely piece of work from Harrison. 

And I completely share Andy’s worries at 60 minutes with 2-1 up. And you go, oh, I know what’s going to happen now. And it does happen. And I suspect that’s just down to confidence. They haven’t won a game. 

Just sit, let’s win this game. And we did. And I suspect when we’ve beaten a couple of people 3-1, like Newcastle or whoever’s after that, then the team will begin to go for the jugular, but I wasn’t altogether surprised that they sat back. 

Plus, you know, it’s been very, very Everton for a very long time. Once you get in front, that’s it. You shut the shop up. Well, you know, Brighton away is the last time any of us can remember that actually going. 

Expletive deleted, you know, get out of it. And the other thing I took from the match, I was happy for Dyche that they won, happy for all the fans that we won. Happy to send all those 38,000 people at home happy, except the Palace fans, but some of them. 

The squad needs a change of thinking. And I would now back somebody who’s coming in to provide them with a different coach and different ideas and different thoughts. And if we don’t do that, fine. You know, Dyche will get some momentum from that game, I hope. 

And I’m going to go to Newcastle. But I think the squad of players needs a rethink. And whilst I’m, whilst I’ve got the floor and I’m banging it on, the idea of moving McNeil into the centre of the sort of midfield behind the strikers is a cracking idea. 

He’s really good. And, you know, we’ve got maybe three or four players now who could actually trap the ball for the first time. So that’s useful. People with, you know, and I’m not being cynical. People with instant control don’t have to help a football team to play at some sort of pace, which is, you know, in the end, at this level of football crucial that you can do things quickly and outmaneuver the opposition quickly. 

And then Ndyia and McNeil’s first touch is really good. So is Harrison’s. They’re the reasons to be cheerful. 

Andy: I think, I mean, when we’re talking about Dwight McNeil, I think, I think we’ve seen that, I mean, we were saying in the first couple of weeks of the season that he didn’t look 100% fit, or I was saying it for sure. 

And I think now he’s getting his match fitness, and he looks so much better for it. The other thing I think, I mean, with regards to the second 

George: Because he’s in the centre, he doesn’t have to try and skin a full back, which actually he’s not that good at. He’s not got that rapid pace that really good wingers out. So the centre of midfield suits him because he curiously got a little bit more time there and his passing and his vision is good. 

Sorry to interrupt. 

Andy: Yeah, no, no, it’s all right. I think he looks more confident and happy in his own game now. Yeah. In the first couple of weeks of the season, he looks so out of touch. And today, and yesterday, he looked banged on the money. 

And I personally think that he’s getting his match fitness, or he’s at a much better level of match fitness than he was at the start of the season. 

George: They own the coins and they decorate it. 

Andy: They’ve had a pre -season to get ready for the season, and so many of them looked well off the mark in the opening couple of weeks, and McNeil was one of them, but he’s definitely getting there now, which is good to see. 

The other thing I thought as well, there were patches in the second half where there was some really nice quick ball movement, one touch, passing move, passing move, and I was encouraged by that until they decided, for whatever reason, they chose to sit back and let powers come back into the game. 

I thought there was some really good one -touch stuff, and obviously the one that exemplified it was the second goal. Well, both goals really, because Young played that quick ball in for McNeil, and he had space to take his shot, and he hit it perfectly, but the little touch from Harrison, and then the instant cross, a quick look, and then a cross to the back post, and McNeil again, a quick touch, 

and then put it away. I just think it wasn’t universal, but there were definite signs of confidence and one touchability in the side. I just think that if we can play more of that than the long ball, hoof it up and up for tactics, then I think we will give teams a better game than we’ve given them so far, or certainly in five of the first six games, we’ll give them a better game than we’ve done today. 

George: What were your thoughts, Paull? 

Paul: What were my thoughts? I thought it was some fairly decent individual performances. I think if we start from the back and then move forwards, not that probably many Evertonians need a convincing of this, but Branthwaite is an absolute superstar and is, you know, what if one assumes his career follows the path that we expect, he is going to become one of England’s finest ever players. 

I’m probably not for everything. Well, let’s see what happens in the future. I hope that’s wrong. Possibly not, but in a sense, I was joking with myself in the past, I said he reminds me of Bobby Moore or he reminds me of Franz Beckenbauer

Just watching him yesterday against really watching the match, his positioning, his ability to read the game, his ability to actually almost run the game from the centre of defense, that’s the mark of a really, really top -class player. 

And then you think, well, actually, how old is he? How many games has he actually played? And, you know, he’s not an experienced player at all. He hasn’t played since the end of last season. So I was half expecting him to look a little bit rusty. 

But he was like, I don’t know, not that any of us are in this position, but you can imagine putting a Rolls Royce in a garage for six months and then coming back and then just switching the ignition key on and it’s absolutely pitch perfect. 

And that to me was what he was like. He is an absolute Rolls Royce of a player. And I’m not saying that to apply more pressure to him or anything else, because I suspect he knows himself already. And if he doesn’t, people should be telling him. 

But he was the difference yesterday, without a shadow of a doubt, I think. Ndiaye looks great. And we’ve been looking for a player like him for such a long time. And obviously, you know, McNeil’s contributions were immense playing in that number 10 role. 

But I think the difference between this Everton side and the Everton side that we’ve put out and the Everton performances that we’ve put out so far this season is down to one man. And that’s all of a sudden, OK, I’ll get on to the goal that we conceded in a little bit, but all of a sudden, you know, we look like it as if we had a defensive unit once more. 

And the players around Branthwaite were playing better than they did when Branthwaite wasn’t in the side. Now, that may be a function of the fact that Keene was in the side when Branthwaite wasn’t. But ignore that for a second. 

Just the fact that Branthwaite is back there. Tarkowski looked like a player he looked like last year, as against the player he’s been so far this season. And I think it was because he was just able to concentrate on his game without trying to control the defence. 

And as we’ve often talked about when Branthwaite plays on that left -hand side of the centre defence, it makes the left -back’s job so much easier as well. So, all in all, collectively, from the back, even in that first half, which was a pretty terrible performance, we looked so much better at the back. 

In midfield, I think we could talk for hours about the midfield and how you can go into a game having prepared for a game all week. And yet, it looked like they’d never played football on the same pitch. 

That they’d possibly never even played a Premier League game between them, because they were so individually isolated. Nobody was working in conjunction with anybody else across the midfield. a much better side than Palace, or even their side a little bit better than Palace, would have destroyed us on the basis of that first half performance. 

I think we were lucky that Palace didn’t play particularly well and didn’t look like a particularly strong team in themselves. I don’t really know what the game plan was with the midfield in the first half. 

Andy: I agree entirely with that. I couldn’t figure out what the game plan was. Even through some of the second half, I was trying to figure out what the game plan was because having drawn level and then gone ahead, the game plan that got us back level and then put us ahead went out the window. 

I was really struggling. I mean obviously I was made up that we got level with a pitch of a goal and then gone ahead with a really good goal as well. Like I said before, I couldn’t fathom out why we couldn’t sustain that and why we sat back or allowed Palace to come back into the game. 

I mean you know you might be right, our kid, about they were just desperate to get a result but if you sit back you invite the opposition onto you and that sooner or later that’s going to bite you in the backside. 

George: Well, five years already in the season. 

Andy: Yeah, well, yeah. 

George: But, you know, like I said to you in a text halfway through the second half, if you’re going to sit back, then bring IGG on, bring on a proper tackler who’s going to break things up, take off Mangala, who played as well as he can, but he’s not a defensive midfield player. 

No way. And, you know, Garner is not a great tackler and I have no idea why Tim Iroegbunan and how do you say it? 

Andy: They wrote. 

George: Everything. 

Paul: That’s all. It will ruin them. 

Andy: Ireogbunan. 

George: Yeah, Tim Irrigation. Why was he not starting? And why was he not at any point playing? He’s a danger to people. He’s strong in the tackle. He’s quick. And he’s got good feet. And I think that the evident future, I think, is around a midfield that’s got him, McNeil, and a completely blank game. 

Andy: Linked in the description. 

George: Ndiaye, because all three of them are really, really good first touch players. They can create all manner of chaos. 

Andy: And I certainly… 

George: I mean, I was just surprised the man didn’t even get a kick yesterday, but anyway. Well, you’ve got your mid field, do you want to talk about the forwards? 

Paul: Well, what is this to say, really? I mean, DCL did what DCL does, I suppose. At times, he looked very isolated, especially for a player that’s playing at home. At times, he didn’t look quite as aggressive as he can be on other occasions. 

And, of course, not that many chances fell his way. Not in fact that he got much service up front because he didn’t. He had a pretty quiet game. The one thing I would say, though, and again, this is not the first time we’ve said it, that everything, for all of the faults that you can point to, Calvert Lewin’s game in particular, is an ability or inability to convert chances. 

We always retain a much better shape when he’s in the side. And that’s almost like an unquantifiable quality. 

George: Also too, yeah. 

Paul: about him. But it’s like one, it’s one of those things that you don’t realize how important it is until it’s not there. And I think 

George: Sorry, cool. 

Paul: No, I’m just saying, I think if Beto had come on in the second half, which is, you know, has been one of Dyche’s go-to subs at some point in the second half, we would have found that game much more difficult in the last sort of 10-15 minutes. 

George: 100%. It’s really good that Dyche’s learned that better with his not, premiership quality, he’s not. 

Paul: Yeah, the question is, can we get, for me, the question is, can we get… A Chermitti fit, yeah, definitely, but can we get Calvert-Lewin through every 90 minutes, or near 90 minutes of every game? 

A bit of a question mark over that, but can we do that? Because we’re a much better side with him on the pitch. And then, with him being on the pitch, how do we ensure that he sees more of the ball in dangerous areas, and not just from dead ball situations? 

And I struggle to think about how we can do that under a Dyche team, which is a bit quandary, because Dyche is obviously going to be our manager still for some time to come. And it is from that that, well, actually, I mean, as was proven to be the case, we really are going to have to be looking for goals from the likes of McNeil, who’s now our top scorer, obviously, but also Ndiaye has to step in. 

Doucoure, in the last couple of years, has come up with important goals and important times, obviously. Find a way that allows him to, he’s best when he arrives late in the box, but not when he’s through one -on-one. 

Yesterday. It’s like time stood still, wasn’t it? Yesterday. 

George: when he was through. 

Paul: Yeah, sort of well, right. Anyway, so let’s carry on. Yeah. Where we were. Yeah. So we’ve got to find more goals from more areas of the pitch, I think. And yes, we’re going to play DCL. And we’re better for playing him. 

But we’ve got to find a way of spreading the goal load for want to have a better expression. 

George: Yeah, and as regards service to him, you’ve got to play wingers and Lindstrom had a poor game yesterday, although I wonder whether he was picked to protect Ashley Young, who, you know, they did nothing down Ashley Young’s side of the pitch. 

So maybe there was silent work there that I didn’t notice, but offensively he did nothing. And of course, you know, Harrison could not have demonstrated better what happens when you bring on a real winger. 

Immediately, he’s effective and dizzy and we haven’t got two of them. 

Paul: Well, we’re not going to play two wingers are we if we if we’re going to have McNeil higher up. 

George: Not from our squad, no. But I’m just thinking about your question about service to DCL, that’s all. Yeah, yeah. 

Paul: Play your best players. 

George: play, play a rogue about men playing Ndiaye, play McNeil, play the best players. You know, save Doucoure to come off the bench when you want up and you need somebody who run around like Billy and stop everybody else playing. 

That’s that’s good. Football tactics. I don’t think you should start the game with him when you’ve got a player of Jim’s class. 

Andy: Mm -hmm 

George: If I was Crystal Palace’s manager and looked at the Everton team, she’d go, oh, who knows, they’ve left him on the bench, whoopee. You know, Richie Benaud used to say the job of a captain, i.e. coach, is do what the opposition least wants you to do. 

Andy: Yeah. 

Paul: Yeah, well, whilst I agree with that totally, I have a bit of an issue with whether or not that’s Dyche’s philosophy. 

George: Well, clearly not. He’s much more of a footballing pragmatist, isn’t he? 

Paul: Well, yeah, pragmatist is one word for it, I suppose. No, I mean, I just think back to yesterday and the game, I mean, essentially, the results hinged on the performance of Everton Football Club for about 10 or 15 minutes after the beginning of the second half. 

You’re absolutely right, yeah. And you’ve got to think about who influenced what, what parts of the game. As you say, the first half performance was shocking. And that was totally influenced. The team went out under the management and under the instructions of Sean Dyche. 

And this is not just a bashing session for the sake of bashing Sean Dyche, just an observation. And we performed really badly, one assumes, certainly with the selection that he made, but also playing in the manner in which he wanted us to play. 

And it was pretty piss poor, wasn’t it? Let’s be honest about it. 

Andy: Yeah, the first half was completely non discrete. So the defending for the palace goal was embarrassing. 

Paul: Let’s get on to defending this thing. Let me just finish this point then. So we go in at half time. What happens at half time? Nobody in the history of Dyche’s career has ever said Dyche’s demand to turn you around at half time and to give you an inspiring speech that sends you out and you perform much better in the second half than you did in the first. 

Don’t ever recall anybody ever saying that about Sean Dyche. What happened yesterday that was different from what’s happened previously and happened in recent weeks certainly, is that Coleman got hold of the team at half time and he gave them a speech. 

It was more of a yelling session than a speech and he gave a few home truths yesterday after that first half performance and I think what happened is we went out and we went out with Coleman’s words ringing or they went out with Coleman’s words ringing in their ears and we performed well for 10-15 minutes and we retook the lead. 

Then I think Dyche’s influence came back into the game which then goes back to your point Andy about the way that we saw the game out. 

George: So what we need to institute is a 15 minute bulking session. Every 15 minutes, somebody goes down in a heap, shot from the stands by a sniper, and Seamus gets out of the team and rolls the other stuff up. 

The person gets up and carries on. Well, that’s dead interesting, because I just watched a match between Rangers and Hibernian, and there was no devil in the game. 22 guys who didn’t really, really give a damn what happened. 

And I suddenly realized watching it, that of course that’s terribly important that somebody gives a damn, whether we win or not. So that we play well. And that’s one of the things I like most about Ndiaye. 

He wants to play well, and he’s pushing the level. Come on, come on. And all teams need people like that, inspiring people. And if he’s off the pitch and taking over the dressing room, that’s what our captain should be doing. 

Fair play to Seamus Coleman, that’s a great story. I really like that. 

Andy: I’ve got to be honest, I was wondering when we went to or know exactly what was said and I was beginning to think who said it. I didn’t know that. I’m with Paul, the number of times you can imagine Sean Dyche has been referred to as a motivational come from behind coach. 

It’s pretty pretty thin numbers but it just made me think who on the team of the players on the pitch who in who on the team might have said some uh telling words should we say. I was thinking Tarkowski, Pickford and maybe even maybe even Ndiaye because he’s the live wire on that side at the moment and it just made me wonder whether you know whether there have been for want of a better phrase a bit of a shouting match between the players and maybe a combination of three or four of them getting the old I’d have the desired effect but I mean if Paul’s right that that Coleman went in and and shared a few home truths then like you say that you know that’s that’s good from the club captain to get involved and bring about the change that was needed to play to him. 

Well, Andy, it was put to me, and I’m not going to say who told me, but it was put to me that if anybody doubted Coleman’s value to the team, they needed to be in that dressing room for 15 minutes, a half time. 

George: Don’t know how I’m liking this story more and more. Is there a tape? Is there a. 

Andy: That’s what I’m saying. 

George: I love how he was giving him two barrels. My favorite moment of the match was when that guy, fair play to him, outpaced and out blocked and outmuscled Branthwaite, as he comes to take his shot, Tarkowski appears and goes, this is how you tackle people like him. 

And then the ball went out to Eze and Tarkowski went, well I’m gonna get booked for one of these, flattened him as well. That was great, I enjoyed that bit. But I’m making a silly point except I’m not. 

George: The team collectively needs to play with that kind of devil in them. Tarkowski must be a marvelous player to play with because he’s never giving less than his best. 

Andy: No, that’s true. 

George: And, you know, people you can’t expect to make a team of 11 people who are all the same kind of character, but they have to react, you know, like, you have to probably more never shouted to anybody in his old career, but I bet he was great to play with to because you go, look at the level he’s playing at. 

One way or another, the team will collectively improve if those attitudes seep through and of course they’re much easier to seep through if you’re winning, because you suddenly think, you know, they must be thinking, come on, we’ll give Newcastle a game. 

Paul: It’s that old thing George, isn’t it, about you look around the room and you know that everybody in that room, or on your side, they’re going to look after you. And your response has to be to look after everybody else as well. 

That you’re not going to let anybody down, you know, it’s the old thing about like, would you want to go into battle alongside any of these people? And if the answer to that is no, then they’re not the right people for the team. 

Andy: Mm hmm. 

Paul: And that may sound like a tragedy. 

George: No, but they don’t have to be screamers, do they? No, no, no, not at all. 

Andy: not at all, but what they need to be is when they say something that whatever they say carries weight 

George: or the way they play the game. I don’t imagine Ndiaye is a shout out, but he demonstrates every time you play the ball to him how important that moment is. And football is only 90 minutes of those moments. 

You know, I also watched a bit of City yesterday, and their concentration levels, you know, yes, they are very, very, very good players and superbly well coached, but their concentration levels of exactly what you were just saying, Paul, were playing as a team for each other are really impressive. 

And consequently, their standard is as high as it’s possible to be. And pretty soon they’ll be out of the league. 

Paul: When we get all up again, there’s no way you could play for a Pep Guardiola team and not have that attitude. Yeah, because if he saw that attitude missing, first of all, you wouldn’t get into the team. 

Secondly, you’d find yourself at the next available transfer window, move to another team and. And all of those players for all of their technical brilliance and all of their all of his tactical brilliance at the end of the day. 

They all work so hard for each other. And, you know, the very best ever since I’d said the three of us have seen and the people who listen to us have seen. It’s just been full of people like that, that you would really just want to work alongside. 

George: Absolutely. You know, Paul: Bracewell never blast it away for anybody, but he must have been fantastic to play with. Give him the ball. What’s he going to do? You know, yeah, we’ll get there. 

Paul: But Ratcliffe wasn’t a shouter, was he? Sorry, say that again. I said Ratcliffe wasn’t a shouter. 

George: No, neither was Brian Labone. 

Andy: You know. 

Wilson. And, you know, talking about Branthesiyr as we were earlier, he doesn’t appear to be shouting either. 

George: It’s a nature, doesn’t it? 

Paul: No, but you see me see him in the game, he’s actually talking to people, not yelling at people, pointing, whatever is, is, is the, is the arm around the shoulders type, isn’t it? And again, ridiculous at his age that he has to be in that position, but that’s what he appears to be. 

And he’s so calm and self assured that that calmness and that self assurance and, but also the authority that goes with the level that his game is at translates into that type of behavior. And that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s what we need. 

And again, you know, I don’t want to be picking on Dyche, but I think one of the things it demonstrates at the moment, how much pressure Dyche is actually under is that he appears to be getting even more and more frantic every game on the side of the pitch. 

Paul: And when the camera does go on to him, more often than not, he’s like waving his arms and he’s yelling. No, he goes to any game when Sean Dyche is on the sideline. And it doesn’t matter where you are on the pitch, you can hear him yelling because that’s what he does. 

He yells, you know, and he’s got a very, obviously a very distinctive voice. But it seems to me in recent weeks, you know, and behaviorally is become more frantic. 

George: Well, I’m going to defend him to the point that I would say that the way we’ve played so have I. Yeah, yeah. 

Paul: I think that’s a fair point. Just going back to the point then about the goal that we conceded, a couple of things. First of all, the type of goal that is scored against us is the type of goal that we score on a regular basis against other teams, isn’t it? 

Ball to the back post and then the ball kings around the box a little bit and we score from it. A couple of things struck me and again, I stress that I’m not a football tactician in any sense. 

George: 

There’s something you understand there that I know nothing about. 

Paul: And that’s all. Yeah, but you’re a goalkeeper, George, so you… 

George: That’s true, I was absolutely brilliant too, so go on. 

Paul: That’s second only to Gordon Banks, I hear. 

George: Yeah, absolutely. 

Paul: I was going to say two things. One, with regards to the goalkeeper, it’s clearly a tactical decision, a decision that’s been made, obviously with Pickford’s approval, that he doesn’t come off the line. 

It’s saying that my connection is unstable. I hope you can still hear me. Yeah, so Pickford stays on his line, one, which I think can cause problems. Then you can argue, well, why does he stay on his line? 

He’s never been that great at coming across as maybe he doesn’t have the physicality, he doesn’t have the height, whatever, in the modern game for that. But the more pressing point for me is that we have this zonal marking system at corners and free kicks in particular. 

And it seems to me, and I haven’t obviously done the analysis, but I think if you went to when, if you looked at teams that played zonal marking, that those teams in the modern game are conceding more goals than they might have done 10, 15, 20 years ago. 

I don’t know how you can, because with zonal marking, the whole point of zonal marking is that you’re responsible for a particular area of the box. And therefore you need to know where the ball is in order to know whether you have that responsibility. 

So when a cross comes in from a corner or from a free kick, whatever, your focus is actually on the ball, your focus is not necessarily on the players, on the opposition players that are around you. And you’re serious? 

George: Yeah. 

Andy: That’s how I understand it as well. 

George: Yeah. Well, that’s how I understand it. But tell me the last time you saw that happening in a penalty area before a free kicker, all I see is people going, where’s that number? Where’s that? Where’s that? 

Look, I’ve got to block him. I’ve got to block him. I’ve got to block him. But what do you think? There’s no idea where the ball is. Sorry, go on. 

Paul: No, what the defenders are trying to do is they’re trying to control an area of the box and not necessarily trying to man mark an individual player. And I think what you get and what you see now on corners. 

It’s really interesting if you just go back 10 years and you just pick any random game and you look at how attackers attack corners and how defenders defend corners. 

George: Yeah. 

Paul: it’s so different these days. Defenders, generally speaking, these days, especially when they’re playing zone only, are very static. So they tend to stick to the same areas of the penalty area because that’s their job to defend that part of the box. 

And attackers are quite mobile, attackers tend to… First of all, you notice this thing where they do this like a snake type thing where they all line up behind each other in a line. That makes zone marking really difficult because all of a sudden you’ve got overloading in one particular area of the box. 

So if the ball actually gets to that part of the box, instead of maybe having one or two players, you may have three or four players in that very small area. Secondly, as a result of that type of attacking, and again, just go back and look at games. 

It happens time and time again. It’s so difficult to stop a runner because there are now two, three, maybe four people running from the same position within the penalty area itself. And if you are zonal marking, it means again that you are at a disadvantage from one from a numbers point of view because there are more people in your part of the box than there are defenders. 

And two, it’s honestly impossible for one or two individuals to pick up two or three or four players who are running into the box or running from a segment of the box to another segment of the box. If you understand what I’m saying. 

And I think, again, it’d be really interesting to do the statistics. I’m sure somebody has and I’m sure they’re available. How many more goals are being scored from a ball that ends up at the back post and then is put back across the goal? 

So you either score directly from a header at the back post or you put the ball back across the post. And I think because attacking coaches have worked out, that’s the way to beat the zone or marking system. 

George: Very, very interesting. Thank you. 

Paul: And I think we’ve worked it out from an attacking perspective because that’s how we score an awful lot of our goals, but we haven’t worked out how to defend it. 

George: That’s odd, isn’t it? Because Dyche has always been, you know, Dyche’s teams have always scored lots of goals at the back post. I remember watching her get beat at Burnley by two goals, two-headed on the back post, you go, they just did that, why haven’t you covered it? 

Andy: If we’re practicing that kind of back post cross and the dialects are all back across the area, if we’re practicing that in training, why aren’t we better at defending it? Because we scored a lot of goals that way last season. 

But now we seem incapable, well not incapable, but we’re struggling to defend that type of attack and cross. I don’t understand. If we’re practicing the offensive part of it, why aren’t we better at the defensive part as well? 

Paul: I suppose. 

George: you. Sorry, go on. No, no, go on. No, I was only good. No, you talk, you talk. 

Paul: I suppose one of the differences between last season and this season, obviously, is that we don’t have Onana in the side anymore. And if you think back to Onana’s defensive responsibilities last year, he was fundamental to our ability to defend crosses into the box because of his height and because of his physicality. 

And we don’t have that. Obviously, we don’t have that anymore. I don’t, I don’t, I’m not sure Doucoure fits that bill anymore, if indeed he ever did. 

George: Right. 

Paul: I don’t think he’s quick enough. I don’t think he’s athletic enough. I don’t think he has enough spring in his step. 

George: I’m going to buy them a lot, yeah. 

Paul: to deal with the type of threats that Onana dealt with. I mean, obviously Onana, a much younger man, much taller man, much greater physical presence, but we don’t have that person. So obviously we have Branthwaite and obviously we have Tarkowski, who are both very good in the air and both quite Branthwaite certainly, Tarkowski, no small person by any stretch of the imagination. 

George: And DCL is always near post at every corner situation. 

Andy: Well, now that Branthwaite is back in the side, we have to hope that the kind of defensive solidity we showed for most of last season can be replicated and make up for the loss of Onana in that position if Onana was that responsible. 

Paul: Yeah, I think it’ll improve Andy. I mean, it must improve with Branswaite back in the team. 

Andy: Yeah. 

Paul: But I suppose we go back to the point, one, we conceded from the corner, and two, the way that we played in the latter half of the second half, not the first half of the second, but having taken the lead. 

Just continues the idea that we are always going to be vulnerable to conceding goals under the current style of playing. And one is obviously personnel, but then if front weight’s in the team, that’s less of an issue. 

Two, then it comes down to tactics. Which, you know, comes back to our dear friend, the manager. 

George: And just a couple of things I’d like to say about defending, because I don’t know anything about it, you started that by saying pictures stayed on his blind. There was a lot of fuss about Arsenal’s tactics against Spurs. 

So I went to YouTube and I watched how Arsenal behave, corners that they’ve got. And they’ve four guys blocked the goalie off. So he can’t come to the ball whether he wants to or not. And then the big guys come in to score the goal. 

You know, that’s how they beat Tottenham. The centre are scored with a really powerful letter. But the goalie had no chance of getting there because he was blocked off by four guys. Now, it’s possible that Pickford has gone, well, don’t let, I’ll just stay where I am rather than come out and run into people who are cheating like that. 

And it’s not called cheating. It’s called blocking and marking. 

Paul: Yeah, I think that’s a very good point. 

George: I don’t agree with you about everybody having their eye on the ball. Every corner I watch in Premier League football, loads of players are running around just watching the guy they’re supposed to be marking. 

They don’t know when the guy is taking the corner. They’re making sure that their runner does not get a run on the ball. They don’t know where the ball is because they’re watching them. If they’re not pulling his shirt or wrapping their arms around him or all the rest of that, preposterous shenanigans that passes for sport in three kicks in corner landing. 

And Arsenal are now bringing this to some sort of new Leeds United kind of perfection here. Remember when Jackie Charlton started blocking off the goalie? Well, they now do a squad of them. I don’t think it’s funny. 

It gives me the pick watching it. 

Paul: you 

George: But, you know, that doesn’t answer, so I have only one more thought about what you’re saying about how weak we seem to be at back post calling, hopefully, and I’m sure it must improve without Branthwaite. 

But surely there must come a point where a ball comes into the box and your defender and their attacker, be he a defender or not, go for it. And sometimes other people just time their jumps better than you do, and they get the header. 

You know, I remember a fabulous goal that Mark Hughes scored against Liverpool, and the BBC commentator said to Bob Paisley afterwards, what went wrong with the goal. And Bob Paisley said, nothing, really good goal on it. 

You know, it does happen that in the split second it takes to score a goal that sometimes their guy heading it jumps better than your guy who’s supposed to be hitting it, doesn’t it? We shouldn’t, does every single goal have to have a complete inquest on it? 

Isn’t there sometimes when you go, he jumped better than you, he jumped higher than you? Or am I being naive? 

Paul: No, I think this is a fair point. I mean, you know, I’m sure if you’re a Crystal Palace fan, you might ask about, you know, McNeil’s goal, but at the end of the day, it was just a, you know, it was a fantastic strike and these things happen and thank goodness that they do because that’s ultimately what we watch football for, isn’t it? 

Those moments of absolute brilliance. I get that totally. Anyway, as I say, I’m not Pep Guardiola, so what do I know? But that was my observations on defending and particularly defending corners and free kicks. 

George: You see, I think one of the things that’s wrong with sport on television, which, you know, to be fair to all the people who might be listening to this, who went to the match and go to the match, pay their money, I don’t, is the commentary is between a commentator who acts like he knows everything anyway, and an expert. 

Some of them are pretty good and really do know what they’re talking about. What they need is a pleb in there, like me or you or anybody to go, what does zonal marking mean? Explain it to me, would you please? 

And what went wrong there? What should have happened? Because there are times when, you know, football goes into dialogue that I just don’t understand. I mean, if zonal marketing is now peppered, and Arsenal are going to block your goalie off no matter what you do, what’s the next plan that you bring on a secret rope and rope all the… 

Andy: Rope. 

George: Oh, sorry, I’m going mad. 

Andy: You keep telling me to stop listening to pundits. 

George: Yeah, you’re right, sorry. Yeah, absolutely right. 

Andy: because I think sometimes if you listen to them, it depends what game you’re watching as to. You can see a similar incident and it just depends on the game and you get two completely different versions of it and you think, hang on a minute, you know, Shearer said that, Janus said this, Lineker said this, Keown said that and it’s all the same, it’s just a different game. 

George: Yeah, I’ll retract all that toggle. 

Andy: I’ll tell you now, wait till you see the sending off of Bruno Fernandez in today’s game against Spurs and I guarantee that most of the pundits will say that’s not a red card, it’s a yellow. 

George: Right. 

Andy: because he slipped before he kicked Madison in the shin, sorry. 

George: Right. 

Andy: And I guarantee that half of them will say that’s a yellow card. And some might say, no, no, the rest got it right to red. So it doesn’t matter what the incident is, whether, you know, whether it’s a goal, a free kick, a penalty, whatever, you know, I mean, I suppose that’s the beauty of sport is the different opinions. 

You know, nothing you’re never ever going to get 100 percent agreement on any particular incident. But sometimes some of the punditry just I think it depends, I think it depends who they’re watching in each individual game. 

George: Fair enough, Andy. 

Andy: That’s only my opinion, and I might be wrong. I probably am. 

Paul: I mean, just speaking generally, I think the quality of punditry on the BBC in particular is appalling these days and it has been gradually declining over the years. I really think it is terrible stuff. 

I’m not the sky’s biggest fan by any stretch of the imagination, but I happen to think that Jamie Carragher and Gary Neville do an excellent job when they do, especially their analysis, like on the Monday night game when they’re looking at individual things. 

I always find that really one interesting and two quite informative because they’re sort of they’re just looking at it tactically. They’re almost anonymizing the incidents, whatever it is that they’re looking at, and they’re just explaining, well, this happened because that happened and this person made that wrong, which allowed the following things to happen, etc., etc., etc. 

That type of punditry, I think, is absolutely what’s needed. The type of stuff that the BBC in particular have gone in for, I don’t know, much of the day, which I very, very rarely watch these days. I’m not just because of everything as a result, but it’s all too chummy and it’s all personality -based. 

George: That program, because, you know, I don’t live in England and I happened to be in England at the minute and I watched it last night for the first time in five years, is an absolute dictionary definition of what does the word atrophy mean? 

It’s in absolute aspic. There is not a single live moment in it and the only interesting thing that happened last night was a shameful comment from Gary Lineker of all people. It was really bad. Newcastle got a pen when Gordon went through, pushed it past the goalie, goalie dived, missed it and caught Gordon penalty. 

So now we have to have a debate about whether it’s a pen or not. It’s neither in there because the ref gave a pen and that was the end of that. But Lineker said, yeah, well, when you’re running through like that on a goalie, the key thing is to keep your own speed up. 

So as soon as you play the ball past him, you can run into him. Then, he said, that’s not the same as diving. That’s exactly what he said, Andy. I was really disappointed. I’m sure he’s telling the truth that that’s what he did. 

I know we can all see that, but someone somewhere has to get hold of the amount of cheating that goes on in the game. It’s just yawn making. It’s awful. It’s to forget your prime responsibility as a footballer is you are entertaining and you are educating the next generation of boys and girls to play this game. 

And sometimes I watch the game and I think, what are you teaching these kids to do? 

Andy: I’m telling you now, wait while you see the highlights of this United Spurs game, dear. All right. I’ll be losing, Andy. Spurs are winning 1-0, they scored in the third minute, but some of the fouling that’s going on is ridiculous. 

I mean, there could have been at least two red cards in this first half. It’s dearly me. So, I mean, I’m not going to watch Match of the Day tonight, but I’ll lay odds that whoever’s on the punditry on Match of the Day 2 will be disputing some of these decisions by the referee and absolutely nailed on. 

But anyway, that’s a digression. Let’s spend a little time talking about the business side of things, Paul. Give us the edited highlights of what’s going on this week. 

Paul: To be honest, there’s not a huge amount to say other than the Friedkins who obviously were in the frame earlier in the summer and had that period of exclusivity with Farhad Myshiri withdrew and they were drawn the basis of there were concerns about the 777/A cap loan and there were some concerns actually over Farhad Moshiri and his relationship with Usmanov as well. 

Those concerns seemed to have been satisfied to a large degree. A-cap were involved in the discussions as to what would happen in the future with regards to that loan and we got to the point this week where Friedkins have agreed to buy the club and Moshiri, who is desperate to sell the club, has agreed to the terms and all of the creditors have agreed to the terms and it looks like that, you know, certainly before Christmas we’re going to be in a position where we have new owners, owners that are credible business people, wealthy enough to own a football club. They’re going to pay back the vast majority of the debt that’s owed to our creditors and we are going to be 

Andy: All of them go. 

Paul: that I think that’s still to be determined, to be honest, Andy. Certainly the really expensive debt is going to be paid off and some of that may be transferred onto debt onto the stadium in the same way that Arsenal and Tottenham, just to use two examples, have long-term debt on their stadium. 

But the ridiculously priced loans that we have with rights and media funding and the loans that we have with the A-CAP/777 loans, they’re going to largely disappear, if not disappear altogether. 

George: all of this miracle. 

Paul: Well, I think, I think because the two, two factors, I think, one is that Moshiri has had to accept that he’s not going to get what he gets virtually nothing for his shares. So if he walks away with something like 25 million pounds as a result of selling his shares, that’s as much as he gets. 

But I think the biggest point is that there’s some legal certainty as to what happens when the 777/ACAP loan is paid off, which it will be. And now that the Friedkins have got that sort of legal opinion, and they’re satisfied with that legal opinion, actually, what they’re getting is, you know, a pretty good value deal here. 

It’s going to cost them 650 million pounds to repay all of the debt and to pay off Moshiri. But then we’ve got a football club with a brand new stadium. Obviously needs money being spent on the squad and probably needs a new management team both on the pitch. 

Definitely needs new management team off the pitch, which obviously costs money. You know, that’s well within the operating budgets of the company. And I think we’ve got a much brighter future ahead of us than we had a week ago. 

Some people say they’ve got concerns over what freekins are done in Roma. Personally, I don’t think Roma is a really difficult club to manage. And yes, they made a mistake in terms of the initial management appointment, but they’ve recognized that mistake and they’ve acted quickly as a result of acting quickly and as a result of the mistake. 

The CEO has resigned because the Roma fans objected most strongly to that. But, hey, they’re demonstrating that they’re prepared to make difficult decisions. And for how many years have we called out for people who are running everything to make the difficult decisions when necessary? 

So I think we’re in a much, much better position than we were, as I say, a week ago. And I, for one, I’m very comfortable with assuming that we stay in the Premier League this season with our future going forward. 

I think we’ve got a real opportunity to, first of all, stabilize, which I think we will do quite quickly under the Friedkins. But then hopefully with the right management appointments off the pitch and on the pitch, including a new director of football, we’ve got almost a clean slate from which to start again. 

And that’s about as much as we could ask for, I think. And that’s, I think, all we’ve got. So I, for one, and, you know, I spent years being very negative about the club. I, for one, feel very positive about the future going forwards. 

Paul: Thank you. 

Andy: Good news. 

George: Very good news. 

Paul: I don’t know what I’m going to write about in the future, but that’s a minor point. 

George: back post-defending Paul. 

Andy: The whole idea is for the club to repair itself to the point where you don’t have the right critical articles. 

Paul: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, you know, those articles have only ever been written on the basis that perhaps they may help us reach us, you know, find a solution to the problems that we’ve got. 

George: Yeah. 

Paul: I for one will celebrate the day that Farhad Moshiri leavesthis football club. You know, I understand people saying, well, if it wasn’t for him, if it wasn’t for him, we wouldn’t have a brand new stadium. 

But that’s true. But the cost of that stadium in terms of what’s happened to the club in recent years, we’ve retained our Premier League status. And let’s assume for a second that we retain it. Again, this year, not through the actions of the owners, but through the actions of the fans and through the actions of the players largely. 

And also, it has to be said, Sean Dyche as well in terms of last year in particular. But yeah, I just emphasize the point that I think, as Evertonians, we can sleep a little easier. Once theFriedkins have got their name above the door. 

George: That must have helped the players yesterday to some tiny extent, because if we all as fans pay this much attention to that side of Everton Football Club, they must. They’re their employers, for God’s sake. 

Andy: It’s interesting that you say that, our kid, because on 5 Live yesterday, James McFadden was asked about that, whether the announcement of the Friedkin Group, you know, coming to terms with Moshiri and whatnot, would have a positive effect on the team. 

And McFadden doubted it. He said it will obviously give the fans a lift, he said, but it won’t necessarily affect the player’s performance. He definitely doubted 

George: I’m not going to argue with any effects on the play. 

Andy: I was a bit surprised when he said it, but he said, understandably, the fans who turn up every week and are incredibly loyal, as they always are, they will get a lid from it. And he just doubted whether the players would be as effective or as energized as the fan base might be. 

And certainly then when you go behind after 15 minutes and you think, or inside 15 minutes, and you think, blamey, he had a point. 

George: Yep. You can’t argue with the player because he’s, because he knows, you know, the mindset is too tunneled out is what it sounds to me like you’re saying. Yeah. Extraneous. Well, I think Dyches just talked about extraneous noise. 

Concentrate on what you’re doing. Concentrate on trapping the ball. Concentrate on just pass and move. Yeah. Fair play. 

Paul: He has also, George, tended to use the distraction of what’s going on off the pitch as a reason for the performances this season. That’s where he hadn’t done in the past. I think for me, sorry, the critical thing of all of this is that from a footballing perspective, this is a real watershed moment for the club. 

Going into the summer because so many of our players are out of contract and will be leaving the club. We’re only going to have, and this is if they all stay, we’re only going to have 12 of the current first team squad on contract next season. 

Some may get contract extensions, but currently as it stands. That’s why it’s so important that the new leadership, when they come in, come in with a plan and come in and have an idea as to who’s the new director, if there’s who that person is. 

That person then has a few months at least to work on a plan as to what happens next summer because really the critical time for the club is going to be what happens after the season’s finished. Assuming that we’re staying in the Premier League, what do we do in terms of completely rebuilding our squad? 

Because it’s going to be an absolutely critical summer for us and my big fear, well lots of fears, but one of my biggest fears was that if we didn’t have a change of ownership and if it didn’t happen as soon as it possibly could, what would happen to the club if we were under the current ownership going into next summer. 

Andy: Yep. 

That’s what I was thinking about. 

Paul: And it doesn’t, so, you know, there’s loads of challenges ahead for the club, but under new ownership and stable ownership and stable finances, then assuming that we make the right decisions in terms of the people who are going to run the club going forwards, you know, we’ve got every chance of coming through this. 

Andy: Mm hmm. 

Paul: Yep, let’s hope so. And that’s brilliant. That’s as good as we can get at this stage. 

Andy: Yeah. 

Paul: A nice cup run from the start of the new year and maybe a trip to Wembley and the FA Cup final and maybe lifting some silverware at the end of the season. That would help a lot. Let’s see what happens when we get there. 

George: Bye -bye. Yeah. Who’s Newcastle? Newcastle, mate. 

Andy: Yeah. 

George: Yeah, talk to him. 

Paul: Great stuff. All right, gents, thank you so much. Interesting discussion, as always. And yeah, happy times. Yeah. New ownership on the horizon. No obvious reasons why it’s not going to conclude. And yeah, we come back next week and let’s discuss our second win of the season. 

Andy: Yeah. Yeah, that’ll be cool. 

George: Thank you all. 

Paul: Yeah, I think actually not regardless of what happens in the game next week against Newcastle a little conversation around Anthony Gordon would be interesting actually because he’s a very different character from what we might think of them on the pitch. 

George: Yeah, I’ve got a lot of time for Gordon, and he’s improved and you can’t take anything away from that. He’s got, he’s a better player than he was when he was with us. Yeah, he’s made the right decision and fair play to him. 

Paul: Yeah, well, he’s under a progressive manager, isn’t he, for one, so. 

George: Yeah, absolutely. 

Paul: All right, guys, thank you so much. Thank you to everybody for listening. And I hope you’ve enjoyed a sunnier Talking the Blues this week. Bye. Thank you all. Take care. Bye bye.