Paul: Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, depending on where in the world you are or the time of the day. You’re listening to this post-Dyche, now, David Moyes’ edition of Talking the Blues. 

Andy and George, how are you both?

George & Andy:  Not bad. Yeah. Good. I think quite a bit has happened since we last spoke. Can we start there? 

Paul: Yeah. OK. So as a number of people might know, I had the good fortune of going up to Goodison or going up to Liverpool, actually, on Thursday and then going to the match on Thursday evening. And of course, in going up there and in the afternoon, the events that we’ll talk about a bit later occurred where Dyche was relieved of his duties. 

And we have to make the call, George. Your call of who would take over in the event of Dyche leaving occurred.

 So there was, and I met up with some great friends before the game. And there was quite an incredible atmosphere, one of relief, one of joy and one of real expectation with regards to what was going to happen next, because I think everybody, myself included, had been dreading going to a third round. 

And the FA Cup came on Thursday evening against pretty lowly place, Peterborough United, who actually played OK on the night. And seeing Sean Dyche bellow from the touchline. And of course we didn’t see that. 

So the lead up to the game was spectacular because there was like sort of almost unbridled joy. What will ever happen at Everton when we eventually win something again? I don’t really know. All over the place. 

Yeah, because the amount of joy and the celebratory mood before the game was such that, yeah, it was as if there had been some substance abuse along the way. Yeah, it was quite incredible. And actually just before we talk about the game, I’m not going to mention the individuals because there are plenty of other people as well. 

But the people I met up with and they all will know who they are because they all listen to this podcast. And we met up in the Leigh Arms, which is like five minutes walk from. from Goodison are all the people I mean other people including yourselves obviously and other listeners to this podcast who have helped me through through my health problems in the last 18 months or so and it was the first opportunity I had as an individual and I’m only talking here and forgive me for talking personally it was the first opportunity I had to meet a meet them and be to thank them personally and in person, for all the, and I say this genuinely, all the love and support that they’ve given me.

So the lead-up to the game was actually for me very very special, and I just want to get that on the record and thank the individuals concerned and as I say there are plenty of others but the people I met with beforehand and well yeah, the funny thing was on the way up well that was the following day actually because I went back to Goodison on Friday.

But let’s cover that now as well so on Friday I stayed in a hotel in the city centre and then on Friday morning I went back to Goodison to do the Goodison tour which again I’ll talk about later because it was absolutely fantastic.

But in the taxi going going up to Goodison, I asked the standard question when you get into a taxi in Liverpool which is are you a red or are you a blue? and he said oh I’m a blue that’s you know and so we got chatting and I said you know what do you think about things and everything and he brought up the subject of Moshiri and he brought up the subject of 777. I didn’t even mention them and I didn’t say who I was or anything else and he started talking about Josimar and he started talking about people like Paul Brown and Phillipe Auclair and other people who had all been involved in the realisation and Moshiri’s choice of future owners. 

The wrong choices. So we had this conversation in about the 15 minutes or so drive up to Goodison. And I just thought, and I don’t normally do this, I was getting out of the taxi outside the ground and said to him, do you know who the esk is, mate? 

And he said, yeah, listen to his podcast and read all this stuff. He said, I’ve been giving him shit on Twitter for years. I said, “yeah, that’s me”. So we just had a really good laugh about it. And he’s like, “sorry, sorry, mate”. 

No need to apologize. It’s great. It doesn’t bother me in the slightest, but it was just very, very funny. And so but there were loads of, I mean, I was only there for 30 hours, loads of different stories like that. 

Just as I said to you before we hit the record button, basically we spent the whole 30 hours apart from a few hours of sleep just having a really good laugh with some really lovely people so it was great.

But the the game itself, fantastic atmosphere when the teams came out to Z cars and went you know slightly staged but when they announced uh that Bainsey and Coleman run on on the touch line and and they came out and to be fair to both of them they both were quite sheepish when they came out and it looked as if they didn’t really want want the attention um but they got a fantastic reception obviously from what was um a full house at gutterson and yeah the atmosphere at that particular point was great but the atmosphere throughout the game and i think a couple of other people have already said this it was quite flat really and it wasn’t it wasn’t the most inspiring game.

Obviously the players the team that we put out was a team that had been selected by Dyche because you know the decision to fire Dyche and then the decision to bring in Baines and Coleman was so late in the day that there was nothing that could be done about that.

Ii think I haven’t heard the interview but I think Baines has said since that there wasn’t a huge amount that he could do in the time that he was given but he did make some subtle changes, you know we got our wing backs much higher up the pitch we were played across the pitch much more so than we had done throughout the whole of Dyche’s period and he instructed the players a couple of things one not to rely upon long balls and obviously Pickford wasn’t wasn’t playing but we didn’t get like you know just a long punch from a goalkeeper and he instructed the players you know as he called it to play through the threes, so defence midfield to attack and the way there were definitely signs of that. 

Signs of an immediate improvement in the style of football that we were playing. It was the biggest incident for me with my energy level. Yes. Yeah. Well, that was the other point that he talked about. Apparently, Baines talked about it before the game. 

And essentially, to remember the fact that they were playing for everything football club, they were playing at Goodison. It was an FA Cup game. And it was important to be re-energized and to energize the Goodison crowd. 

And they did that at the beginning in terms of energizing the crowd. But then the crowd, it was also a very cold night. The crowd was a little bit quiet, but that wasn’t really so important. But if you just stood back and watched the game from afar, there was a definite improvement in style of play and a definite improvement in terms of attitude as well. 

George: No, I’m just going to say all that we’ve seen in previous weeks about, you know, there is a level of discord between the players and perhaps not being that enamored with how they were being told to play. 

Paul: There seems to be slightly more freedom on the pitch. And it’s like something with more ability, greater ability, perhaps, to express themselves on the pitch. That’s not to say it was a, you know, a world-beating performance. 

It wasn’t. And I thought, to be fair, actually played pretty well, given, you know, where they came from and the fact that they played a very, very young side as well, which was quite surprising, really, because you thought they would expect Aston Villa to poke in. 

Paul: Yeah. And so it wasn’t all without, you know, the potential for damage. It had a better team playing us. But we basically did what we needed to do on that night. And, you know, Beto’s goal was created by a lovely through ball, something which we hadn’t really seen again with Dyche. 

Paul: And yeah, it was just, it was satisfying. That’s probably the objective I would use. And, you know, it meant that a), we’re still in the competition, b), there may be another FA Cup game to come at Goodison, which obviously, had we lost, wouldn’t have been the case. 

And yeah, we’re still in a tournament and we still might win something this season. What’s your take?

George: I must say, I’m surprised you say that Baines said that this was the size that Dyche picked. 

It wasn’t the shape of any Dyche team he’s picked so far. But anyway, I’m not. I think what Baines is referring to, Our Kid, is that Dyche may have picked the squad, but he selected the formation. Right. 

That’s what I thought, Andy, and the question I wanted to ask you both, and especially you, Paul, because you watched the game live, and that’s a different thing from what me and Andy did, is give me your thoughts on Ganege as captain, and do you think Moyes will retain him as captain for Wednesday? 

Andy: No. Right. Go back to Tarkowski. I would lay, if Coleman’s not playing, I would lay on to give it back to Tarkowski. Right.

Paul:  If  Young is playing, he might give it to him. I don’t know. To be honest, I hadn’t really thought of that. 

George: I just thought it was interesting. I mean, yes, he’s the senior player on that pitch, but he seemed to enjoy him. He seemed to enjoy the responsibility. 

Paul: Yeah, very much so. And I always think that, notwithstanding what I just said about Young, that the captain should be in the middle of the pitch anyway? 

George: I think so. I mean, it wasn’t, it wasn’t, you know, a commanding or a domineering performance by Gana Gueye by any stretch. But there was a unity and a sense of purpose in the team that wasn’t there previously. 

Paul: Yeah. And I suppose one of the interesting aspects about the game and, you know, this is not going to be a Dyche knocking session because, frankly, I’m fed up with talking about Dyche. You don’t really want to talk about him anymore. 

Other than to say this, Dyche had told the Friedkins earlier in the week that he’d taken the team as far as he could take them, not that the team had gone as far as it could go. So there was a change. 

George: That’s tantamount to a resignation, isn’t it?

Paul:  It is, except that he knew, obviously, if he resigned, he wouldn’t have received the compensation package that he did receive. So it was, but I think I’ve taken it from what I’m told. 

“I think I’ve taken the team as far as I can take it”. What’s your view? And of course, once they hear that, their view is, as you say, this is tantamount to a resignation, and then you get into a discussion about, OK, well, if we fire you, this is what your contract says and this is what you’re due. 

But if you’re saying that you can’t continue in this role, then obviously there’s a different conversation to be had. And ultimately, what we ended up with was a compromise situation. But I think Dyche played it and he’s perfectly entitled to play it in this way. 

It in the sense that, okay, so I’ve told you that, you know, I can no, I can no longer get this team into a better position for whatever the reasons were. And we’ve all got our own thoughts, what those reasons were. 

But he realized that having said that, obviously, there needed to be a change before the Peterborough game, because, you know, whether you think we can win the FA Cup or not, it still represents our only chance of progression or silverware this season. 

And I suspect he used that sort of timeline, or deadline in his negotiation. So ultimately, the Friedkins agreed to something quite late in the day. It was, I think it was early afternoon, when they agreed to whatever the compensation package was. 

And, and he left his post, which left, as we now know, Baines and Coleman, just a few hours. In fact, what Baines wasn’t even with the team at the Titanic Hotel, he had to be called back in from, I assume he was either at Finch Farm or had gone home already, because he’d been on duty with the under-18s in the morning. 

So, slightly unfortunate that it took that long, but in the end it all worked out. And as I say, the game itself, and I think I wrote about it afterwards, would it have been the most nondescript? Without that background, it would have been, and without the fact that it was on a Thursday night, and the fact that it was freezing cold, and 3,000 or possibly slightly more Peterborough fans made the journey to see their team play their only game that they will play at Goodison Park, and have played at Goodison Park throughout their history. 

Aside from that, it was the most nondescript, FA Cup third round that you could possibly imagine, not at any one moment. Even when in the second half, and the beginning of the second half in particular, I wouldn’t say Peterborough got a grip on the game, but we had less of a grip in the third quarter of the game, so the first half of the second half, than we did in the first half and towards the latter end of the game. Even at that point, it never really felt like an FA Cup tie. It wasn’t blood and thunder by either side, in any stretch of the imagination. 

So it was slightly odd. 

Andy: And as I say, had Dyche been, we certainly wouldn’t have played the way that we did. And the result might have been different, who knows. I got the impression that maybe Baines and Coleman had said to the players just beforehand, like, they picked up this round thing and went, guys, this is a football. 

I think I put it in a text message to you. I think he’s told them to reacquaint themselves with a football. And eventually, it will come naturally to them because they are athletes and professional footballers. 

They know how to play the game. I think they were having to reacquaint themselves with how to play the game as against how they’d been told to play the game by the now default manager. and I felt certainly through most of the first half, until Beto scored, that this was a let’s just get used to passing a ball around again rather than just upping it forward and opening for the best. 

I genuinely felt that. I might be completely and utterly wrong and I probably am, but that was how it appeared to me. I think there was like an element almost of it, like being almost like a preseason game. 

It was obviously more competitive than that, but almost as if they were just feeling their way into a new system. Yeah. And you’re right throughout professional footballers.

Andy: No, no, as I said, that’s how it struck me, was that, you know, maybe Baines, maybe Coleman had said, right, you know, the king is dead. 

We haven’t got a new king just yet. So in the interim period, whether it’s 24 hours or another three months, this is how we’re going to play football. You know, you’re not going to go out and trolley these eight nil because it’s just not in your nature at this minute in time. 

But for God’s sake, just play the ball around. I mean, you’d lose count of how many long balls we would have played had Dyche been on the bench. I think I counted two in the first half and neither of them came from Virginia in the goal. 

Whereas, you know, if that had been Dyche, every few occasions that Virginia did get the ball under Dyche, he would have been told to lump it forward. Whereas there was clearly a mandate from the coaching duo play out from the back. And as you said, Paul, play through the three lines, play defence to midfield and then, you know, to get it forward, preferably on the deck, but in the air only when it was, you know, the right time to cross. 

George: The corollary said that was interesting was we put more good crosses in in that match than I can remember for years. Yeah. And DCL wasn’t there. You would have had a hatrick, I’m sure of it. Well, I mean, for me, the pleasing thing was we actually did play out and everybody, if you like, everybody got a fair amount of time on the ball as against lump it forward and hoping that better would be able to win a ball in the air and lay it off to someone who may or may not be in the right position to support him. 

You know, we, we moved it through midfield, we did get it wide, but the Patterson and Michelenko, who were playing further forward, and that’s what I say, I think Baines changed the formation to say, right, you know, we’re going to go three, four, three. 

And, and, and, and for me, I, for me, I mean, Mykolenko gets an awful lot of stick from an awful lot of Evertonians, but I actually thought he seemed to enjoy his game a bit more, playing that bit further forward, and providing balls into the middle. 

And he, and I think he does link quite well with and I definitely looked a lot more relaxed. And I think of a couple of other observations. And there were none of the big gaps that we’ve seen previously between, you know, the different lines, particularly between midfield and, and the forward line. 

So we were much more compact lengthwise across the pitch from goal to goal, but we were much wider as well. Across the pitch. And what that gave was anybody that was on the ball, it gave them one at least one or two options with the ball when they had it, which is something that we’ve not seen for how long players having options, it’s vital. And players running off the ball as well, and players running ahead of the ball. And all pretty basic stuff. And, you know, in the context of who we were playing against has to be recognized as pretty basic stuff. 

But it was a definite improvement. And given that they only had, you know, a small number of hours to make those changes. I think they both did a remarkable job and the players themselves did a really good job. 

Andy: I was just going to say that Paul, we’ve got to give some credit to the players who have become so accustomed to how they’ve been told to play by Dyche and whatnot. But I think they deserve as much credit as Baines and Coleman do because they’ve clearly thought, hang on a minute, we’ve got a bit more freedom here now. 

They must have been a relieved bunch of Everton players ever. It must have been a get out of jail free card and no big surprise that Leighton Baines and Seamus Coleman came in and said, put the ball on the deck boys and pass it to each other. 

It’s not rocket science football, it’s not a complicated game. 

Paul: Couldn’t agree more. Let’s get you to Moyes. Where do we start with the new management manager appointment? Maybe because there’s a risk of me going into sort of a monologue here. 

George: Well, where do you both start with the appointment of David Moyes? No, with the fact that you called that five or six weeks ago, said you thought it was the right thing and you’ve been listened to and and now and now we’ll find out. 

Boy, will you get shit if you’re wrong. But, you know, all our hopes are with him and he has some baggage because, you know, there’s no question that there were times in his career early on as Manchester United manager when he behaved pretty poorly. 

Andy: And I’m sure there’s some blues with long memories about that. But, you know, that’s not where we’re at now. This is what is. And our job as fans is to support him and the team. There’s no point carping. 

You know, we’re all football fans who are always capable of having a carp. So let’s wait till Aston Villa trolley is eight nil. And we get seven players sent off and then we can slag him up. But for the moment, that’s the choice they’ve made and he gets our support. 

Of course, he does. And all the things that I think you’re going to say, Paul, I mean, I don’t wish to preempt you, but about continuity and him knowing the club and the club knowing him and the figurehead and all that stuff. 

Paul: Yeah, that rings true. Right, my lord, I’d just like to intervene on behalf of my client. Go ahead and say that, in my opinion, that when Moyes left the club, he probably dealt with it very clumsily. 

And some of the comments he made about the fans subsequent to that, I think upon reflection, he probably would not do now. if the same circumstances occurred. But I also would say that when he left the club, he did for Manchester United what you might expect him to do for and expect anybody to do for his then employer. 

And that was his duty. And I know a lot of people will argue, well, that shouldn’t have been the case. But I think what he did, he did because he was now the manager of Manchester United, and it was his duty to get the best deal he could and possibly unsettled some of the players that he wanted to take to Manchester United. 

George: And that’s just in the nature of the business, I think. And I’m not going to argue with that. But I’ll also stand behind a few blues ago, there was no need for that kind of behavior. He called us a little club, but he just did. 

But you know, I do we all know that because we’re Evertonians and it’s our history and I honestly like this in the same sense of slagging off Dyche or whatever or Allardyce or anybody it’s been you know part of an enormous disappointment since frankly Moyes left.

There’s been very few high spots the appointment of Ancelotti was one where you go oh my god, oh well hope so you know let’s not go into the past let’s just accept that that’s who the Friedkins are our owners have chosen and back in and and hope for the best for him but then I think I think we’ve got and….

Paul:  I think this is where perhaps and I’d be interested in your views and both both of you and in George in a second but this is perhaps where my analysis might differ from other people I think the fact that he was manager of Everton for a period of time well not a period of time but 13 years obviously is important in the context of the relationship between Everton the fans and him and he’s clearly always notwithstanding what happened at United he’s always had feelings for the club.

And in an interview he did with the, a long interview he did, with the Echo last year you know again he made the point that the club might at some point in the future be part of his future. So there was always I think that longing to to come back and perhaps he thought that there might be unfinished business

But I think I don’t think he was brought back because and I think a lot of people have used this term he knows the club and he’s been away from the club for what 12 years I don’t think he necessarily knows the club as the club is now and he certainly doesn’t I don’t think he necessarily might know the club in the context of the competitive environment that we’re in now as against the competitive environment that we were when he left and I think he’s been brought in for very different reasons and I think the primary reason why he’s been brought in is to create stability within the organization and to build back all of the fundamentals that are required in any professional sports entity and I say that because I’m not in his employment, 

I’m not his PR guy by any stretch of imagination, I’m just giving my views. I think the Friedkins will have recognized as indeed, anybody did, who did any due diligence on the club that there was essentially a hollow shell in terms of the infrastructure of the club. 

The spirit of the club was still there, albeit heavily damaged by both Moshiri’s appointments and Moshiri’s actions and the financial consequences of those. And indeed, in the latter time, by Dyche’s inability to relate to the fan base, relate to the players, relate to what it is to be an Evertonian, all of that was obviously missing. 

But I think from the owner’s perspective, from the perspective of somebody that’s putting, say, 600 million and has put more than 600 million into the club on day one, and that they needed somebody, and I know that this is the case, that they needed somebody who wouldn’t behave as an employee, somebody that wouldn’t behave as an employer. 

And I think this is an important point about David Moyes that is often lost on many people. And if you refer back to his first period at Everton, under Bill Kenwright’s chairmanship and Bill Kenwright’s, I’m not going to say ownership, because he was only the largest single shareholder. 

It never really was his club, although obviously he stamped his mark right across it. And the great thing about Moyes, if you were the investor or the owner of the football club, is that Moyes, as always, as far as I’m aware, and my analysis of him, acted like you would act as if it was your own money that you were investing in the club, as against, say, Koeman’s approach, which would just come in, and how much money you’re giving me, and I’m just going to blow it, or indeed, any quite a few of the other managers that we’ve had since. And I think that’s a really, really important in the context a of who is, who has invested in the club and ball club, and be also the regulatory environment in which we’re going to go into where we’re still at a competitive disadvantage to many other Premier League clubs, 

by virtue of the fact that, you know, we have much lower revenues, much lower turnover than Man City, Liverpool and Arsenal, etc, etc, etc. And I think when when you’re sitting down as the Friedkins did, or indeed anybody that would have sensible who would have bought the club, I think we’re going to be at a competitive disadvantage, regardless of the fact that we’re moving into Bramley-Moore for quite some period of time, because we are a smaller club financially than than others. 

And we’re not just allowed to pour in our own money, because the regulations don’t allow us to do that. What we actually need is somebody who thinks like us and somebody who is recognized in the in the business as being able to produce teams develop teams on very limited budgets and I think that maybe not what fans want to hear but that’s what an owner wants to hear and I think that’s the primary reason why he’s come back to the club. 

The fact that he has been at the club beforehand and he obviously still has great feelings for the and no doubt jumped at the chance when he when he was offered the chance I think I think his secondary to that single point that if you’re an owner he’s exactly the type of manager that you would want in the circumstances that we’re in then you can get into all of the secondaries such as what does he bring well he brings you know extensive knowledge of the Premier League and let’s not forget that he’s got a dozen years more experience of the Premier League now than he had when he left Everton so he should be he should be a more knowledgeable manager and nobody that knows David Moyes will tell you anything other than the fact that he’s a man that works incredibly hard at knowing the game.

And you know he probably watches more games of football than virtually any other manager and has done throughout his career so you’re getting somebody who’s incredibly hard-working knowledgeable about the game you’re getting somebody who then will expect those same standards to come from the players that he employs and I’m not sure we can say that about many of the managers that we’ve had since David Moyes left anyway they’re my opening comments 

And I’m happy to be and contradicted on those and but that’s why I feel primarily David Moyes has come in obviously the other thing is where we sit in in the league itself at this moment in time and he is known as a defensive manager we do have a reasonably strong defence, we have a great goalkeeper. So there’s no real issues as to will our defensive performance deteriorate with a new manager. What we have to see from him of course is that we can score more goals and there will be some Evertonians who will question that. 

But there’s also a record of we actually did play some, there were times when we played some terrible football and there were times when we played the big teams away from home. The old knife to a gun fight argument where we didn’t compete. 

But we’re surely going to be better under Moyes than we had been under Dyche. So that’s a starting point. That’s a starting point to my argument anyway.

Andy: I accept that Paul. My counter is that whilst I don’t disagree with… 

with anything you’ve just said. The reappointment or the appointment under the Friedkins of David Moyes isn’t an appointment to set the pulses racing. Maybe I was maybe I and others who maybe feel like I do that. 

We needed something different. I think we need more ambition. Don’t get me wrong, I hope he does well. Obviously the immediate job he’s got is to keep us in the Premier League for next season. I think with the way things were going under doubt, I would be a lot more confident of that under David Moyes than I would have been had Dyche remained in situ to the end of the season. 

But then going forward, it doesn’t excite me, if I’m brutally honest. The appointment of David Moyes doesn’t excite me. He knows the game inside out. I get all of that. I’m not arguing any of that. But as football fans, we want to get excited about our team and we want to be entertained. 

We want to really, really look forward to each and every game. I don’t think I’m going to get that from David Moyes. I hope I’m wrong. I really do. I hope I’m wrong. I hope he surprises me for one and everybody else. 

But I just don’t think he’s going to get the pulses racing. And God forbid we get any, any repetition of knife to a gun gunfight interviews and sound bites from him. I desperately hope that I mean, how long has he been out of work now for what 12 months? 

I hope he’s used that 12 months to reflect upon his career to this date. Because whilst there were periods in his first tenure that ever where we did play some really good football, some really good football fundamentally. 

And we were clearly the best of the best of the rest, if you like, after the alleged big clubs. We’ve slipped from that. rather badly now. And so he’s got a massive job on his hand, A, to get us through to the end of this season and still be in the Premier League for next season and the move to the new stadium, etc, etc. 

But to get us back to being the best of the rest, I would suggest it is a lot harder now than it was when he was first here. And that’s not just because of the financial constraints that we may still have on us, thanks to the way we’d be able to machete and and cope beforehand. 

And I do genuinely wish him well in the job. But it doesn’t excite me in the slightest. And I was kind of hoping that we might get a left field appointment by the Friedkins, you know, but that’s just me. 

If you asked me to put it in one word, I’d have to say underwhelmed. I’m trying to discourage anybody from having their own opinions. I don’t agree with you, but that’s fine. No, I didn’t think you’d agree with me. 

I didn’t expect one minute because, you know, you nailed your colour to Moyes a few weeks ago. I was hoping for something different. And maybe I was maybe I’m being pie in the sky and in that, you know, in that, given where we are in the league, you know, we couldn’t the Friedkins know the club could afford to be too cavalier in the appointment of a manager to succeed Dyche. 

George: I do accept that totally. I’m just a little bit concerned. Let’s just soon for one minute that Moyes does what’s necessary this season and gets us, you know, even if it’s only 17th, you know, hopefully it’ll be higher than that, but we retain Premier League status for next season. 

I’m not sure where the kick-on for the future comes from it. I’ve got a whole load more to say and I’m in danger of making this a monologue, so I apologise for that, because I think I can answer some of those questions. 

George, first, your opinion? 

George:Well, sorry, I was just trying not to give away the fact that it just comes to the lavatory. What covers that, isn’t it? I’m pretty fatalistic about this. This is where we are today. 

This is the situation. This is what the new owners have decided. I don’t care. I’m with Andy in the sense that it wouldn’t have been my choice, but I never saw a list. I never went, oh, no, not him, oh, no, not her. 

They obviously did. I’m totally with my brother on Underwhelmed and all that, but I do have respect and fondness for David Moyes. I think you’re right to say that we will go to Bramley Moore as a Premier League club, which is most indefinitely top of the agenda, no matter what anybody says. 

We’re completely screwed if that doesn’t happen. And it’s their judgment that he is the best man for the job. I am not feeling the impulse to argue with them, frankly. I think my job as a supporter is to support, and I will support until something happens that makes me go, well, I don’t think that’s right. 

But I don’t see the point in my going, we should have got Jose Mourinho, which I do not think we should have got. But I understand why Andy says, and I feel the same thing, that I would have been much more excited with something else. 

Carsley would have excited me, somebody who hadn’t been there. I’m not going to like this one, Paul, but ages ago, you said something about John Stones and you said, no, no, you never go back. Well, we’ve gone back. 

I don’t blame them. I’m just in a state of hope for the future. What I want to know, though, just before you go into phase two of your speech, my lord, is how long is the contract that they’ve given him? 

Because I got two different reports yesterday, one was that it was 18 months, and then the Guardian this morning, because he’s got two and a half years, which is true.

Paul:  I think there’s an element of both in it, I think it’s 18 months with the option to extend two and a half years. 

And that may be performance related. Sorry? It’s their option, not his. As far as I understand it, I’m happy if that’s not the case. But it’s an 18 months minimum.

 I think they could have done a lot worse. 

George: They did, not them, not the Friedkins, but we have done a great deal worse since he left. No question about that. Jesus Christ, we have suffered so much as a fan base. Just let’s pull with him and hope for the very, very best for him. 

You know, my memory of it, of him as a coach, is that the defenders got better. As you say, that’s not that much of an issue with us. The midfield stayed where they were, and the attackers didn’t really improve, because although we spent his playing career working out how to stop and play him well, he didn’t transfer that into helping them to play better. 

And that’s his biggest problem, because if we don’t start scoring goals, it won’t matter who the manager is, will it?

Paul:  No. Well, again, coming purely from the pro-Moyes camp, he was never supported at the times when he needed to be in terms of bringing in, you know, a really top class number nine. 

We had goal scorers, obviously, in his period, in the period that he was here, and there were times when you know, we look great going forwards, but hopefully he gets that support. What I was going to add to the opening was a couple of other things. 

First of all, in terms of the immediate, it’s obviously an uplift on Dyche, and I don’t worry that we will stay in the Premier League. It means that we have somebody that’s pretty much seen everything that football’s got to throw at him, and taking the club into the new stadium. 

And I think that can’t be underestimated or overlooked at all the impact of moving from Goodison Park. I’m going to talk about Goodison Park in a little bit. But moving from Goodison Park to the new stadium, that will have a massive effect on the club. 

One would hope positive, but it also creates some uncertainties. And I can only relate to the fact that I know through various business activities that, for example, when you move a workforce from one factory to another, because you’re moving factories, it changes productivity until everybody settles down. 

And that’s just just a fact. But Moyes, I think, will be able to assist in that transition from Everton and Goodison Park to Everton and Bramley-Moore. But I think more importantly than that, three things. 

One, he’s going to, and he will, re-engineer and recreate all of the components beyond the first 11 successful football club needs. And what does that mean? It means the academy. It means the recruitment staff, recruitment, obviously, at the top end of the game, but also that those people that go out searching for new talent are much lower down and at much younger levels. 

That will improve, I think that will improve under Moyes. I think our sports science capability will improve under Moyes. How long is it that we’ve all talked about? The club or the team looking under prepared at the beginning of the season and then not looking fit throughout the season. 

We’ve talked about that for a long time. There are so many elements that go into that, one of which is sports science, two is recovery, three is medical attention, four is diet, five is training, six. 

There’s probably more on top of that. Again, I think Moyes’ experience and Moyes’ ability. He does know the game. In the periods that he’s been out of the game, from what I understand, he has spent a lot of time looking at the way other clubs do things in those areas. 

Again, I think he may not be the best at all of those things, but he will bring an improvement in all of those things from what we’ve had for many, many years. I think he will be instrumental in the appointment of a sporting director, a new sporting director, because I don’t see how Kevin Thelwell can possibly survive David Moyes becoming manager, I think, and David Moyes, although the relationship normally is that the director of football is senior to the manager, given Moyes’ status in the game, I think the relationship will be somewhat different in that sense. 

There needs to be a director of football because Moyes can’t do everything himself. I think Moyes will have an awful lot of say in that, and I think that’s particularly important when some of the criticisms, perhaps, of the Friedkins, when people look at what happened at Rome, when they first went to Rome, they made a lot of mistakes, and it took them a while to settle down and took them a while to get somebody like Ranieri into Rome. And since he’s been there, the club seems to be a much more stable club than it was previously. So I think there’s an element of that with Moyes. 

But I think, finally, my final points on why the Friedkins have done this center on, I think, two things. One is, when you’re in a position that we’re in, you have to look at how I manage a situation that we’re in. 

You have to look at your competition and say, what would your competition least like you to do at this moment in time? And by competition, I mean all of those other clubs in and around the relegation area. 

Who is it that they would most or least like to see coming to Everton at this particular moment in time? And I doubt there’s many of them that think that David Moyes is a bad appointment for Everton, given that they’re competing with Everton to stay out of one of those three relegation spots. 

And I think that will have played a big part in the Friedkin decision. Because if you’re a supporter of another club, or if you’re the owner of another club, and you’re looking at Everton today, and you’re thinking, the chances of Everton staying up, as all three of us have already said, have improved enormously by the appointment of David Moyes. 

So I think that’s a big part of the equation. And I think the final bit of my support for this appointment is that I’ve talked about this for many, many years and written about it on several occasions. 

One of the biggest risks in business is having people in the business that don’t know what they’re doing. And Everton is, you know, a massive example of that over the years. And particularly under the Moshiri period, we failed spectacularly in the Moshiri period, because Moshiri didn’t know what he was doing. 

He was clueless. And, you know, that is such such a risk to businesses. In fact, I think it’s the biggest single risk to businesses when you employ senior people who frankly have no idea what they’re doing. 

And it’s where at the end of the day, the top of the business is where culture is driven. And we’ve talked for years about, you know, the bad culture that exists within Everton or the uncompetitive culture that exists within Everton. 

Moyes will stamp all of that out. And I think that de-risks the whole Friedkin acquisition of Everton. for the Friedkins. And if it de risks it for them, it de risks it for the fans. And, you know, I wrote last week that there’s an alignment between the interest of the Friedkins and the interest of the fans. 

And for me, and I’m sorry, I know, please, those who are listening who disagree with me, I’m quite happy to have the argument online or wherever. And I think for those reasons, that’s why I am so comfortable with the fact that David Moyes is coming back to the club. 

Andy: Fair play. I respect, totally respect your opinions Paul, absolutely. 

Paul: Yeah, and I respect yours. 

Andy:Like I said, I can only say it, say it as I say it, and yes, it will bring that element of stability and I’m not so sure that not so sure about the other clubs thinking what’s the what’s the worst thing that can happen for us is that Everton reappoint David Moyes and I think there might be one or two other clubs who were thinking hang on a minute you know here’s a guy who is conservative in his in his coaching philosophy um I can say that I don’t for me he doesn’t set the policies racing and I’m not so sure that the other clubs that are at the bottom at the bottom end of the table will be as um frightened as you suggest or wary of the of Everton under Moyes as you suggest.

 I’m not convinced by that argument at all but I respect your opinion on it and I like as I said before I hope I hope I’m wrong I hope he does a magnificent job I hope he I hope he achieves the success in inverted commas uh this time around that he didn’t quite achieve in his first tenure ever I respect enormously what he did you know during those those 12-13 years he was Everton manager and as I said before there were times when we played some marvelous football under Moyes there really was I don’t there wasn’t there weren’t I don’t recall many times thinking on the way to the and subsequently doubt where we’re going to the match wasn’t um wasn’t the be all and end all it was a chore and

 I hope he can engender within every single member of the Everton fanbase that the willingness and desire to get back to truly going to the game and looking forward to going to the game and enjoying the game. 

I hope that passionately. I really do. But I also got concerns about the dreaded knife to a gunfight doctrine and the previous failure to go toe to toe with the alleged big clubs. Because at the time we were one of them. 

We were a much bigger club then than we are now if you get me drift. He didn’t make the best of those opportunities as they were. And that’s a concern to me, but like I said, and I make no equivocation about this, I hope to God I’m completely and utterly wrong, and he comes back and in three years time we’re champions of Europe. 

Now that’s probably pie in the sky as well, but we’ve got to have dreams, aren’t we? Well indeed, again I’m not going to label the point, but his win average in the Premier League is second only to Angelotti, and obviously his sample size for a number of games that he was managing was much greater than anybody else’s. 

Paul: So there’s some evidence of him achieving more than any other of our managers have done over the whole of the Premier League period. And I accept what you’re saying about the knife to a gun fight argument, but as I say, I think 12 years on, you know, perhaps he’s learned, one would hope he’s learned a bit from that, and he wouldn’t make the same mistakes. 

George: Who knows? It wouldn’t have been my first choice, but I wish him all the best, and I hope to God that I’ve been given a bit more freedom to play the game. I think it’s going to be fascinating to see what his first team sheet is. 

It’s on Wednesday night. Yeah, it’s Villa, isn’t it? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely fascinating. Yeah. Who he puts. Every single position. It’ll be fascinating to see that. Can I, I mean, obviously the Friedkins have moved quickly. 

In, you know, in the aftermath of Dyche saying he didn’t think he could take the team any further. So they’ve done, absolutely, they’ve done the right thing in saying, right, you’re out of it, you’re toast, thanks, but see you. 

And they’ve moved quickly to make the appointment. So I welcome that, I truly do. We didn’t want this dragging on for another week or 10 days. The interesting thing now, between now and the end of this, well, certainly between now and the end of the month, is whether they’ll be able to do anything in the January transfer window to bring in some, for want of a better word, quality. 

I mean, hopefully, you know, I would imagine that between. you know, if there is going to be anything done in the transfer window, it will be entirely his decision. I think you’re right Paul, I think that Kevin Thelwell being much younger and less experienced there is suggesting Moyes that probably Moyes would have said or requested if not demanded complete control over short-term transfer activity. 

Paul: I think almost definitely Andy and I think also talking to other people who know Moyes much better than I do, he hasn’t been sitting around doing nothing in the period that he’s been out of work, you know, he’s carried on watching games, going to games and he probably has an idea of who he wants to bring it. 

Anyway, I presented my case for David Moyes and we wait and see the proof as always is in what happens in the short-term and obviously slightly longer term as well but for me it is a massive positive and I think as we said before we hit record button and I slept easier as an Evertonian than I have done for many many years in the last couple of nights. 

Yeah, the Friedkins sorted out the finances and now they sorted out the management position and whilst there’s an awful lot more still to do, this is a very, for my opinion, a very very strong start by very serious and very well-backed owners. 

So, from that point of view, an awful lot of concerns that we’ve talked about for years and years and whilst not having disappeared completely, there’s a pathway to recovery and one would hope beyond that success. 

So from my perspective, I am much more relaxed about Everton’s future than I have been for a long time. Well, I’m more relaxed than I was on Thursday evening before this activity. So yeah, you know, it is positive, it is better. 

George: Let’s, you know, meet me here on Wednesday night. Maybe we’ll stuff Villa for wouldn’t that be a buzz? Would it ever? 

Paul: Can I, can I just finish on one? 

George: Oh, yeah, the tour of Goodison. Somewhat different thing. 

Paul: Yeah. And, and haven’t been a spokesman for the last hour or so on David Moyes, I’m not going to be a spokesman for the people who arranged the Goodison Stadium tours. Because You might find this a bit strange. 

a), I’ve never done it. And b), I’ve never actually been in any part of Goodison that wasn’t a public part of Goodison, so a part that, you know, the fans, well, the fans going to sit and watch again or stand behind the standards to have a drink or whatever. 

I’ve never been behind the scenes anywhere in Goodison at all. In all the years I’ve been going to Goodison. And Thursday was, I think, will be my last ever visit to Goodison anyway. 

So I was invited to go on the stadium tour. If anybody who’s listening to this, and I appreciate there’s lots of people who are overseas who listen to our podcast in particular, who might not get the chance and can only apologize to those people for saying this. 

But if you do get the chance to go on the stadium tour between now and the end of the season, just make it a priority. Not quite sure exactly how long it lasted, just over an hour or so, whatever. But it was one of the most fun and meaningful things I’ve ever done in my life. 

I absolutely loved every single minute of it. And I don’t know the names of the two guys that listen around. But their love for the football club, their knowledge of the football club, the joy that they had in, and obviously, some of the people that were there were people from overseas who perhaps don’t know as much about the club as we do, or locals or people who have been going to the game for many, many years.

The knowledge that they shared about the club, things that are good as and was just absolutely fascinating. And it is just a brilliant, brilliant experience. And I think if you’ve got kids and possibly teenage kids, it would be an experience that they would never, ever forget. I know I’m not obviously not a teenage kid, but I will never forget it. And it was just a brilliant, brilliant couple of hours. 

George:Can’t say more than that, really. Oh, that’s great to hear. 

Andy: No, I did, I did the tour about, oh, kind of over 10 years ago, and it isn’t, I thoroughly enjoyed it. Thoroughly enjoyed it. It makes you realize how, quite how antiquated Goodison Park is. 

He does a bit. And having actually been behind the scenes in, you know, other clubs, Stadia, it’s incredible how small it is behind the scenes at Goodison. How cramped, how cramped it is. How cramped it is. 

Paul: And I’m not going to give anything away about the home dressing room and the away dressing room and the differences between the two because. I think that’s hilarious. Yeah, if you’re going to go. you should go without knowing necessarily what the differences are but it is quite funny and yeah it’s just just just a brilliant experience.

Just to stand in the home dressing room the away dressing room and think of all the different players who have been in there and gone into games with their hopes held high and then maybe their hopes dashed because of whatever happened to stand in the tunnel 

And then to hear Z cars and played and just to walk out but those same steps that so many you know fantastic players for so long have walked up you know the world’s first purpose-built football stadium and and here we are just ordinary fans who get the opportunity to walk up those same steps the same steps Dixie Dean walked up, Ted Sagar sager or you know whoever your hero is…..

It’s just a fantastic experience and well if you can do it do it and if you haven’t done it try and make sure that you can do because it was just just mind-blowing really if you ever needed any encouragement or your enthusiasm as an Evertonian to be reignited that’s a good way of doing it.

Yeah that’s brilliant brilliant right well then onwards and upwards and David Moyes in the  in the dugout wow incredible 

Yeah there we go okay unless you’ve got anything else guys we will we’ll call it there

All:  yeah yeah indeed and thanks for listening and

Paul: As I said for everybody i met it was a special couple of days the old city is as thrilling and as amazing and the people of Liverpool are as amazing as they always have been so yeah, just a brilliant experience, thank you