Paul: Good morning, good afternoon or good evening, depending upon where in the world you are, and what time of the day you’re listening to this episode of Talking the Blues. George and Andy, how are you both?
George: Rocking. Excellent.
Paul: And Andy, how about your good self?
Andy: Not too bad, Paul, not too bad.
Paul: It’s less than 10 days since we last spoke and less than 10 days since we last published, but it seems like an awful lot’s happened to Everton in the intervening period. So I’m not exactly sure where we want to start, but all of it is good news.So let the good times roll.
Andy: I think we should, I’m not sure, like yourself, not sure where we should start, but I think we have to continue to pay credit to what David Moyes is doing.
Paul: Mm-hmm
Andy: Because after those first games, nobody seriously expected a great deal of immediate magic from him for the Villa game, but the three games post that, where we ran in three victories and gained a valuable, priceless nine points, were brilliant.
And then we had the FA Cup tie against Bournemouth, which, as we suggested, would be something of an acid test and saw it through. We were second best on the day. Much as it pains me to say it, we didn’t deserve to go through to the next round, and Bournemouth did.
And I think that the concerning thing was, on the day against Bournemouth, there appeared to be a number of players who were seriously out of form on the day. And I’m sure he won’t mind me saying this if he’s listening, Mr Tarkowski, but he had his, arguably his worst game in a blue shirt against Bournemouth in the FA Cup.
And then following that, the disappointment of our exit in the FA Cup, the last FA Cup tie at Goodison, any faint wild dreams of a trophy in the final season at Goodison, gone.
We then had to face the league leaders and arch rivals, arch nemesis, whatever you want to call it, the gobsh*tes from across the park.
And what Moyes achieved against Liverpool was nothing short of miraculous, because there must have been many Evertonians fearing that we could get a hell of a shellacking in the last derby at Goodison. And it was far from it, far from it.
And before we get to his stunning goal, Tarko was brilliant on the night, and he had complete redemption for his disappointing performance against Bournemouth. He’d taken that performance, took it on the team and buried it.
And I’m sure he said to himself something along the lines of, never again, never again am I going to play that poorly in front of these fans, and certainly not against this shell. And I thought he had a tremendous game all night.And the whole team did, every single one of them put a shift in.
And we deservedly took the lead. We were unfortunate not to hold it for too long. And we then conceded it. But we fought back, we didn’t let our heads drop. And that’s what I’m coming to with what Moyes has done. You know, it would have been very, very easy for the side to have gone, oh, look at that, that’s it, we’ve done. But they didn’t, they stuck at their task. And they kept the momentum going.
And they got stronger and stronger as that extra, you know, as they had it on time, period came. There was an almost ridiculous willingness to get something out of the game, however it came. And, you know, in the end, we thoroughly, thoroughly deserved that point against Liverpool.
And they can winge and whine and bitch and moan all they want, that they did not deserve to win that game. Never in the memory of man. There can’t be anyone other than the biased people in the media. Jonathan Lew in The Guardian is one of the people, he was moaning about the added on time going on too long, and about the referee not giving the push in the area, and this, that and the other.
Andy: And I’m going to come to that now, if you don’t mind me staying on point with this. The reason Liverpool didn’t get that push given their way in the area for that equalising goal is entirely down to the referee and his inability to get a grip on the game right from the outset.because in the first five or ten minutes there were two quite blatant pushes on Everton players, one by Robertson, and I think it was on Ndiaye, right in front of the benches that he didn’t give and the second one I think was McAllister on either Branthwaite or Tarkowski and he let both of them go and I think I text during the game to say how can he not see that, how can he not see those blatant pushes and give them as free kicks will he chose not to and then right at the end you know yes there was there’s no doubt about it there was a nudge in in the but they can bitch and moan all they want.
And Van Dyke saying oh you know well this is their cup final you know that’s just smack to our face kind of it gets up my nose all that all that shit but I just think that Everton responded magnificently to the disappointment of the performance and the exit from the FA Cup and then they’ve taken it on again yesterday you know everybody was saying they won’t be able to pick themselves up they’ll be emotionally and physically drained from Wednesday night when they go to Crystal Palace against a team that’s got quite a lot of pace in it we’ll get caught out and this that and the other blah blah blah and we didn’t and the game they got stronger again as the game went on and thoroughly deserved to win that game yesterday at Crystal Palace and this is this is down to Moyes.
And where I’m coming to with Moyes is and we you know we openly, oh well certainly me and our kid and that’s less so Paul, you know expressed some doubts about the decision to bring David Moyes back those doubts have been 99.9 percent arranged
George: Yeah, we might call him a minute.
Andy: Well, all right, that’s the next asset, but as I said to you last night, I think he’ll be equally as determined to beat them as he was to get something from the Derby.
George: Absolutely, Andy.
Andy: You know, but what I’m seeing from David Moyes, I don’t know whether anybody else is seeing it, so this is only my opinion. But I’m seeing a manager who’s been around the track more times than a lurcher and has matured.
And I don’t mean that rudely towards David Moyes, he seems a whole lot calmer. And I think I said this the last time we podcast, on the touchline, he’s not jumping around and waving his arms around, he’s not getting overexcited, he’s talking to his bench. And when I say his bench, I mean, the likes of Baines Ian, I’ve forgotten his name, Billy, his number two, and Alan Irving, he’s not, he’s obviously the man in charge.
But he’s, he’s talking to his bench. And then it’s noticeable that if he’s saying something to the likes of Irving, or Baines, or whoever, and he wants it relayed to the players on the bench, who may or may not be about to come on, it’s he’s delegating that responsibility to, for instance, late things, you know, have a word with Tim, I mean, putting him on in a few minutes, just getting ready, this is what I want him to do, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And it’s Baines and it’s to Moyes. And that, to me, is a sign of his maturity.As a manager, he’s not, you know, he’s obviously the man in charge. But he’s not trying to do everything.
He’s, he’s not, it would appear to me, he’s not quite a control freak, as he once was reputed to be in his first tenure at Everton, where he absolutely ran everything from top to bottom within the club. And I think he is still doing his damnedest to run everything from top to the bottom.
But this time, he’s being wiser and more mature about it. And he’s delegating responsibilities to other people. And I think that is, I think that is rubbing off on the other people, because they see the confidence that he has in them, and they’re responding to it, none more so than the players.
And a few weeks ago, when we were talking about Beto, and we, you know, we and I personally were, probably overcritical of Beto. But we did say at the time that DCL got injured, that the lad would never have a better chance to stake his claim to be the starting centre forward, even when DCL gets fit again.
And we said, if he’s got it in his make up, he needs to grab it with both hands. Well, he’s done more than grab it with both hands. He’s, he’s been a revelation. And I take back some, you know, take back a lot of what I said about him a few weeks ago. The lads and inspiration now, he works his socks off.
And he doesn’t take any grief from any opposing defenders, he gets stuck in, he’s obviously got a good engine, because he just goes and goes and goes. And, you know, the lad looked a busted flush with Dyche, because he was getting precious little game time. And when he did, it was too little too late. And he wasn’t able to influence anything.
Andy: The injury to DCL has given him the opportunity. And he’s taken it with both hands.And you’ve got to give Moyes a lot of the credit for that. Well, you know, Moyes has brought Jake O’Brien in, you know, and on the right of the back three, you know, which has allowed whoever else is on the right hand side to push forward in the same way that Mykolenko is pushing further forward on the left hand side. Moyes hasn’t worked a miracle.
He’s made sensible, mature changes and tweaks to the side and touchwood at the moment, just about every single one of them is paying off goldenly. Thanks.
Paul: Yeah.
George: That was great. Oh, thank you.
Paul: Well, as somebody that was firmly in the Moyes camp for a long period before he even arrived, I wholly endorse what you’ve said, Andy. And, you know, it’s always great to hear a convert, you convert it.
So thank you for that.I expect George to say something similar in a few seconds, but.
George: Dream on.
Paul: Yeah, George, over to you.
George: Well, I don’t know which way to go with this really. I’ll tell you why I took that yesterday’s game, because Andy covered the Bournemouth match, which was a big disappointment and a sharp lesson as to where we are, way, way behind them.
Even though we booked up in the second half, they still, that was goalless the second half. They were in control of that. And so the Derby was a fabulous night hour. I wish there’d been a really good night out, stayed to the end. And yesterday, yesterday, I thought, hello, there is the makings here. I think he’s got years to go yet, Tarkowski.
But if we can hang on to O’Brien, which I’m sure we can, and Branthwaite, more to the point, then we’ve got the next Mountfield and Ratcliffe for a decade. I like it.
Andy: Thank you.
George: Sorry.
Andy: Good observation, now.
George: Um, I like Alcaraz. I know he’s only on loan. I like the speed he wants to play at. I like the fact he’s got an edge and he’s a bit silly twice at times. I like all that.And, uh, what else did I think yesterday, um, that, that, that there’s almost the core there of, of, of something to be very, very hopeful about in the sort of short-term and long-term and longer-term future, um, whether Alcaraz stays or not, the only, my, my quibble with Moyes, you know, obviously, you know, he’s, I think Andy’s analysis is spot on that the man’s not a miracle worker.
He’s a pro and he knows what he’s doing. And Dutch was tired and, um, and done in and Moyes is not tired at all. He’s extremely energized by what he’s got in front of him and he’s doing very well. My, my, my beef with him, my beef would be your substitutions are 15 minutes too late each time, including yesterday, even though we won.
And at the end of the Derby match, and I would kind of like to throw this back to you. He made a point of praising Doucoure before he bollocked him for getting sent off and getting a red card.
I was delighted Doucourei got a red card because I couldn’t see what he’d done in that Derby that was of any use at all. And frankly, yesterday we looked like proper midfield. And if Iroegbaunan was in that team and pushing for a place, that would be for me, a better idea than, uh, than Doucourei
. But I suspect Dyche for some reason, um, and Moyes is very attached to, uh, Doucoure who must be terrific. You know, you’re not like somebody at the end goes off your red side and all that stuff, but, um, I think he’s kind of done as a player and I don’t think he’s anywhere near as good a player as Iroegbunam. Or Alcaraz.
Uh, so that’s that just, you know, that that’s what I took out of yesterday.But the biggest thing you took out yesterday and they still live at the moment, we’re above United. Nevermind. Tottering hotspots and United come to Goodison next Saturday.
And I hope we found them. Really that would be, you know, mine and Andy’s version of the Derby, which was great.I was thrilled to bits for everybody in the Derby because Andy’s right. We did deserve that point. And you know, they were, they look pretty ordinary really. And they’re not ordinary.
They’re really good, but Moyes found the way to go. Well, go on then. What have you got? They ain’t got that much. We go under their skin big time. Yeah. That’s what Sarah said, wasn’t it? On that video we were. Yeah. So that was my thoughts yesterday. There are positives here. And, and if you were picking up, you know, Ndiaye’s pick up one person, but I am loving what’s happening with Ghana Gueye. How old is he? 103.
He’s, he’s really, really. He’s 35, bro.
Yeah, man. Yeah, man. He’s 35. But a lot of those, those kinds of dudes like him, like Michael and that wonderful player, Chelsea, I can’t remember his name.
Andy: And that’s it.
George: Yeah, they can go on. And I think he’s got a couple of years in and he’s really important.He must be marvelous to play with, you know, and they need him in midfield, because if there’s a 50-50 and he’s going in for it, that’s probably going to be ours. Well, the same is not true of Doucoure, the same is not true of Ghana, but it’s more likely to be true of Heroguman, who’s a better tackler than both those players. And I think, you know, in time, I mean, it does feel like now we’re safe and we’re not going to get relegated. You shouldn’t say that, I know. But…
Andy: I think you should say that because we’re up to 13th now. If those two outfits draw this afternoon we’ll still be above them going into next weekend and a victory next weekend would put clear daylight between certainly us and those we prefer to hate.
You’re right about Ghana Gueye though but again I think Ghana Gueye has had a resurgence since Moyes has come back because the word I mean he wasn’t playing badly before but he’s playing better now and as everybody is in fairness and I think you can only really put that down to the effect that Moyes is having A in training and B in the talks he’s clearly having with the players.
I think his style of man management as I said before just about everything about his career, he’s maturing, he’s wiser, he’s calmer, he’s been around the block, he knows what to do and he’s doing it tremendously well and I seriously think that Ghana Gueye improvement is entirely down to Moyes.
I think Moyes is God knows what he said to him I don’t know and we don’t need to know but whatever you’re saying to these players David keep on saying it because they’re all responding and that’s an incredible testament to someone who’s only been there for seven or eight weeks that he’s had such a remarkable effect on a group of players who could very easily have been despondent and he down B and he’s just changed the he’s changed the character of the club as people keep saying on social media we’ve got our club back and you know you’ve got to give him the credit.
George: I do, but, you know, when you were saying about the punditry going, oh, they’ll all be knackered because they sat in the other and the match on Saturday and, you know, it’s all codswallop, really. You know, we all played enough football to know that you’re always hoping for a match. Come on. That’s what we’re doing here.You want to play football. So the idea that you go into Crystal Pass, they’ve got all these runners and they’ll run the length offers.
No, not at all. I think football players would rather play Crystal Palace who are in a bit of form so you can stuff it up within the nicest possible way. And I thought that game was played in an excellent atmosphere, too. That was nice to see, especially after Wednesday night, which was not played in a good atmosphere at all when you might be right about Michael Oliver.I’ve rambled myself to a halt now, sorry.
Have a go, Paul. Otherwise, you’d be, you know. Thank you.
Paul: And gosh, I don’t, I don’t even know where to start. There’s so much that’s happened in the last week. I think I’ll start with the comment that David Moyes has the same side, or so he has the same players but a totally different side.
And he’s been able to achieve that in the space of six games. And that must be down to a number of factors, including his player management capabilities so he’s managing the individuals and he’s getting the best out of the individuals. He’s getting the best out of them collectively in terms of the approach to the game, what he expects from them, tactics, obviously, the way that we set up. And I think he’s probably made the players realize that if we play a certain way of football.
If you look at it from afar, and if you know if you weren’t as passionate and as unobjective as we are, or non objective as we are, you say well there’s a side with a very, very good goalkeeper, the best goalkeeper in the Premier League, in my opinion. There’s a side with two stroke three excellent centre backs, two of whom are very, very young, but big, tall, strong and very fast as well. Both of them can play the ball on the ground when they need to. He got an old, an old sort of dogged war in Tarkowski and I accept, you know, he had a poor performance but generally his performances have been exceptional. We appear to be having a functioning midfield, which we didn’t have previously, obviously assisted from a tactical perspective.
But nevertheless, I think in terms, at least in terms of mid table downwards, a midfield that can compete with any other midfield in the country, possibly even outside top six. And then, all of a sudden, we have somebody who can put the ball in the back of the net from chances that are generated by the style of play that we’ve engaged. And that all sounds extraordinarily simple. But actually that’s what’s happening.
So, we’ve retained our solidity at the back, although our use of the ball from the back has changed radically between pre-Moyes and this version of Moyes, obviously.
And Beto, what can you say about Beto? You know, I said to George, just before we started, can you think of a player that Beto reminds you of in terms of how he’s finished against Liverpool and against Crystal Palace and how generally he looks when he gets a sniff of a goal. And the player I am most reminded of on this occasion is Andy Cole. He looks like if you go back on YouTube and you look at some of the goals that Andy Cole scored. And I know many of them were obviously from Manchester United, so I apologise for that. Yeah, so we won’t be doing that, Cole. But he scored a few before he joined United, so you can probably go and look at Newcastle United as well, although I accept that there are limitations with that as well.
There’s that same clarity of thinking, that coolness. Beto, I think we’ve established beforehand, is a slightly somewhat chaotic player in the sense that maybe the opposite, but certainly the opposition don’t know what you might do next.
And certainly most of the team on the evidence of previous games didn’t really understand what he might do next. And the fact that the ball would ricochet on his shin on a frequent basis suggested that nobody would really know what would happen yet. At that critical moment when he gets in front of the goal and he gets a chance and the ball is played in front of him.
All of that disappears and it becomes a totally, totally different player .And George, I was thinking about this from your perspective as an actor, you must know lots and lots of people who are very different characters off stage from the moment that the spotlight is placed upon them. And I think this guy is one of those, I don’t mean as an individual, I mean from a footballing perspective, that his contribution… outside of scoring goals might be questionable, although having said that against Crystal Palace, he provided the complete performance at the top of the pitch, and he worked across the whole width of the pitch, which was fantastic to see.
But actually, when you actually put the spotlight on him and you put him in front of goal, he knows exactly what he needs to do. And it’s almost as if he steps out of himself and becomes a different person. And that to me is the mark of somebody who is exceptional.
Because you see it, you’ll have seen it in acting, I’ve seen it in business, people who when it actually, you know, comes down to the really critical points in a negotiation or sales pitch, whatever, whatever, whatever, just step out of themselves and they become much better than you ever thought they might be beforehand. And you step back and you think, wow, this person’s really got something. And it’s not something that can be taught. It’s just something that’s there.
And I think, albeit, you know, with limited evidence to date, in terms of the numbers of occasions when it’s happened, this guy might just have that.
And I think Moyes has probably possibly just had a sniff of that felt as if it might be the case. And he’s obviously given him some encouragement. And, you know, I think Moyes management skills in terms of improving players has always been there.
And it’s probably even more mature now than it was 15 years ago. So perhaps it’s no great surprise that Beto is all of a sudden looking like somebody that can really contribute not only in the short term, but, you know, way beyond this season, looking into the next season and beyond that.
George: Yeah. I mean, what you’re talking about is just adrenaline, but we normally associate adrenaline with going faster. I think what happens in football is those killer people in front of goal. And he certainly looks to have that just go slower.
Everything happens really slowly, really calmly.And his finish yesterday was like, so delicate. Yeah. And it’s, you know, it’s what makes him so extraordinary. You’ve got to like him because the rest of the game is, is like horticultural. And then, you know, I think you said three weeks ago, Andy, just put the ball in front of him, mate. And Alcaraz did yesterday. And the minute he got it, he went, well, I know what’s happening now. Yeah. And it did no danger.
Paul: Yeah, absolutely. In real precision sports, athletes have the ability to lower their heart rate.
George: Yeah, I think that’s what goes on with him. It’s all completely natural and cool to him.
Paul: So, you know, you think about archery, you think about shooting, you know, thinking about something that requires that sort of steadiness and, you know, those like the biathlons in alpine skiing and stuff where somebody’s shooting, I think something similar happens the better when he gets into that position and long, long, long may continue. Just on the Derby, obviously, huge amounts have been talked about already from a tactical point of view and from, you know, the contribution that the referee made to the game.Can I just pick up on one particular aspect of the Derby? The fact that it was the last ever Derby at Goodison.
How great was it that all of the Evertonians that were there, and indeed all of the Evertonians that weren’t there but still haven’t, you know, haven’t to watch the game on TV or on a computer screen, actually experienced something like that. Those celebrations at the end of the game, okay, you know, we didn’t win the game, we didn’t win a trophy, we didn’t qualify for Europe on the back of what happened at the end of the game, but to me that’s what, and obviously we would love to do that, but that equaliser right at the very end was what football’s all about for me.
Andy: Yeah.
Paul: And I, I can’t think of another. And obviously, I’m biased. I can’t think of another football club where you would see such celebrations. They just filled me with so much joy, and so much pride, and a feeling of satisfaction that Everton fans for all that they’ve gone through over the years, for all of the difficulties that they face, particularly those people who live in the city.
And obviously, you know, the evidence supporter base is predominantly, you know, the city based or, you know, Liverpool based, and to be able to go into work the following morning, to see their mates, their neighbours, their brothers, their sisters, their husbands, their wives, whomever, and to be able just to have that one moment. And it’s almost as if all of the frustrations of, you know, numerous years, and also, all of the past previous experiences at Goodison, when times were much better than they are now, all became one.
Yeah. And I don’t know what’s going to happen in the last six games at Goodison. There may all be, you know, boring, they’ll know draws or whatever. I don’t think they will be, but they might be. But it doesn’t really matter because, in a sense, it’s got nothing to do with the fact that it was Liverpool that we were playing. That was our moment. That was actually a fitting goodbye to Goodison Park. This is just from my perspective, obviously, I can only talk about how I felt about it.
George: You don’t really understand, Paul. I think the one thing that’s left of the morning will be the fitting goodbye to Fernando, is sent off for whining after three minutes.Ari Maguire is sent off for being offside for the whole game, and we win five nil. Tarko Hatrick.
Paul: A Tarkowski hat-trick, not a Beto hat-trick.
George: No, no, no, Choco. Okay.
Andy: I’ll see you next time.
George: on a more realistic thing good lord what do you mean
Andy: I think one thing that Wednesday night did give, did give Everton Football Club and indeed the game of football was a moment that whether you were there in the ground you lucky buggers or whether you like myself was watching it on TV or however people took in that game radio TV being there however it gave us a game and particularly a moment at the end that will never be forgotten. You know this we’ve all been to hundreds and hundreds of games down the years and we all try to remember as much as we can about every game we’ve ever been to, to the point where it’s almost an obsession remembering goals and this that and the other but nobody, nobody in the memory of man who listened, watched or attended that game will ever forget it.
That is, that’s right up there in fact it’s probably possibly surpassed the Bayern Munich night for being that you know everyone you know in years to come people will say what was the you know what was the greatest ever occasion at Goodison and Bayern Munich immediately comes to mind but I think that Wednesday’s Derby is going to push it very very hard in the greatest occasion at Goodison Park, however you want to constitute it. I just think nobody’s ever ever going to forget that and as Paul said that possibly is you know the one lasting, not the one lasting but arguably the biggest lasting memory of this final season of Goodison. It would be nice obviously to talk everybody else that comes to Goodison between now and the end of the season and as you said 5-0 on Saturday arcade I could live with that quite comfortably and it would be nice you know sorry Southampton if we give you a patient on the last day in the season when we do say goodbye to Guddison but Wednesday night was just something very very special very very special.
Paul: We got our Club back, didn’t we?
Andy: Exactly.
Paul: I talked about before Moyes arrived that one of the reasons why I wanted Moyes to come back to Everton was he would create a sense of identity once more about the club, partly based on his love for the club, partly based on what he contributed to the history of the club in the period that he was managing it previously.
But I think more so because he recognised that this was his opportunity to give something back to the fanbase and give something back to the club itself, and to give something possibly, not that he owed the players anything, but to give something to the players as well.
And I suppose if you wanted to try and encapsulate everything that’s happened in the last few weeks, in one sentence, it is that that he’s given everybody associated with the football club, a sense of belief, a sense of identity, and a sense of belonging once more, all of which, for numerous, numerous reasons, and it’s not just Dyche, for many other reasons beyond that, and had dissipated over the years previously.
Listen to the extent that, you know, we were the shell of the club that we were, or that we are rather, and that the last season in Goodison was in danger of becoming a horrible, horrible event, like the evening party where nobody turns up.
And that, to me, is the difference. And then you look at, you know, from the footballing perspective, what was achieved yesterday, after that, what can only imagine what the scenes were like, and what the feelings were like in the dressing room afterwards, to come down from that high, and then have both the mental and the physical, the challenge of both the mental and physical recovery to go into the Crystal Palace game with very limited numbers available to us.
And yet, we did it, we being the players, being the manager, and the supporters that are over there, because everything fans are obviously renowned for their away support. But I haven’t heard many games, I wasn’t there yesterday, but I haven’t heard many games where the Everton support has been so loud consistently throughout the game.
And that was in a game where we, you know, let’s be honest, we struggled in the first half, and Moyes himself said afterwards that he was not happy at half time. And we did have a little bit of luck at times staying in the game. But we did, and we won it. And it’s great.
George: So very, yeah.
Paul: Can I just say one thing about the game and you know the Crystal Palace call it was disallowed because the corner went out as if
Andy: That looks like.
Paul: out of play. I think it’s something that we’ve talked about previously.That whole thing about was it in play or was it out of play because the ball curved out should be eradicated from the game and we should adopt exactly the same rules as it is. I think we’ve talked about this before, as is adopted in rugby union, where the ball only goes out of play if it bounces beyond the touch line.
George: Sorry, say that again. I’m not quite following that so you think that goal should.
Andy: allowed
Paul: Well, obviously not under the existing rules, but what I’m saying is that there should be a change of rules.It says, if the ball is kicked from a corner or from anywhere else, and in its flight, it appears to go over the touch line, but it comes back into play and bounces, or is it touched by another player in play, play should continue.
Andy: I completely disagree with you.
Paul: In the same way as in cricket, if somebody makes a catch over the boundary, as long as they push the ball back beyond the boundary and their foot is not touching the ground, somebody else can complete the catch. I’ve thought about this for years and years and years. Yesterday was really the first example. And obviously it worked in our favour.So I’m not, you know, I’m not trying to promote it just because it happened to be evident, because it would have worked against us had my version of the rules been in place. But that’s my view.
Andy: Right, well, let me counter that, if I may, because I couldn’t disagree with you more, Paul, on that. Why?
And simply for the reason, that currently, within the game, within the game, we have the technology, we have goal line technology, whereby if the ball crosses the line, and however, however it operates, I don’t know, but the referee gets a signal on his watch to say that ball had crossed the line, so it’s a goal.
And there was one yesterday, I can’t remember which game it was in, but there was one yesterday, and if we’ve got the technology that can determine whether the ball has crossed the line for a goal, then why on earth can’t it be extended for the entire perimeter of the pitch, whereby a corner, as Palace took yesterday, appeared to go out of play, or a long ball down the touch line may or may not appear to go out of play.
If we can do it for the eight yards across a goal mouth, why can’t we do it for however many yards it is down the length and the width of the pitch, so that there’s no ambiguity, that technology is available, extend it to the complete perimeter.
George: Your witness, your witness, Mr. Esk
Paul: Well, I would argue that all the rules, and I think you both use this argument when we’ve talked about VAR in the past, any rule in football should apply to all games, not just some games. And if the technology was available to every single game of football, then I would agree with you, but it’s not, you know, as we witnessed, for example, in the FA Cup, where VAR is not a lot, you know, is not permitted in the early, earlier rounds, particularly rounds three and four.And, you know, it’s an absurdity.
George: That is just almost morally, completely morally corrupt.
Paul: Not. In fact, I would say it’s the exact reverse.
George: We’re only introducing VAR once all the minnows are out of it, please.
Paul: Sorry, yes, you’re absolutely right. And that strengthening my point is that if we’re relying upon technology to maintain a rule in football, it has to apply across all levels of football, not just Premier League clubs or championship clubs, for example.
George: If only that was so.
Paul: But it’s not, and that’s.
Andy: How long have we had goal line technology in the Premier League?
Paul: A few years. I don’t know exactly off the top of my head.
Andy: Okay? So let’s just say a few years. So what on earth is preventing them using it for the entire perimeter of the pitch to take out any ambiguity on out swinging or in swinging corners or whatever?
Paul: I suppose because the limited rules that run football, I’ve never thought that far because I can’t remember the last time when a goal was disallowed because the ball swung out of play and back into play before it was volleyed or headed into the net.
Andy: Well, then, with the amount of money, with the amount of money that’s washing around the Premier League. Then then surely it’s something that has to be immediately considered, you know, because. I know it was tough on Palace yesterday, but at the end of the day, if the ball went out, the ball went out.
And I’m sorry, I do this.I can kind of see where you’re coming from with the cricket analogy. That the player who jumps over the line to knock a six back in so that somebody else isn’t a six or he knocks it back so that somebody else can catch it and the player is out because the ball hasn’t touched the ground. I do kind of get that. But to say that you want that with every instance, you know, if. If we introduce that where the ball had to touch the ground. Or a player before it can be ruled, then. No, I’m sorry, no, I just cannot get on board with that at all. I cannot get on board with that.
We’ve got the technology. We’ve got Hawkeye, as we’ve got in tennis. So use it and use it for corners. If you don’t want to do it for throwings or long balls down the line that may or may not go in and out the touch, then fair enough. But corners are critical or can be critical.
George: Well, not going to the stats.
Andy: No, that’s why that’s why I basically added the can.
Paul: Yeah. Well, in 3% of the occasions ago, they scored from the corner.
Andy: Well.
Paul: Sorry, I’m using it anyway, but that’s, that’s not, that’s not getting caught up on that. And the fact is, it was a fantastic result yesterday.And as I think we all agree, it is the unity of the players, the manager, the coaching squad, and the fans that have created this new side, albeit a new side with the same players.
Andy: I mean, right, right, resurgent. Yeah.
Paul: Of course, this being talking the blues, the question now must be whether or not the change of ownership of the football club, whether we can see a similar experience resulting from that, in the sense that David Moyes has come in as the manager and radically changed performance and changed perceptions of the football club to all the things that we’ve just spoken about yet.
And I am a very strong advocate of the Friedkins in terms of their ownership and their future ownership and what they’ve done already. I want to see the same effect off the pitch from the Friedkins, as we’re seeing on the pitch from David Moyes.
George:When do you think you will call?
Paul: And I don’t know the answer to that question, George. Right.
They would argue, and I think argue quite correctly, that they have done what they needed to do to stabilize the club financially, done what they needed to do to provide the resources to fund the stadium properly and to provide resources for the team in the summer.
We couldn’t do it in January because of PSR, but we will be able to do it in the summer. And I get all of that. But I want to see that shift change that is commensurate with what’s about to happen to the club in terms of moving to Bramley-Moorel.
And I want to see that shift change, not only in the football club, but I want to see that shift change in the city of Liverpool. I want to see it with local politicians. I want to see it with regional politicians. And I want to see it with national politicians and national government.
And I don’t think we’re getting enough support or enough consideration from all of the interested parties. Or if we are, then that support is not easily evidenced. And I don’t say this too critically of politicians, because broadly, I’m in favor of democracy, and broadly, I’m in favor of the idea that most politicians are well meaning. We need to see more evidence of it.
And none of that is more apparent than in what’s going to happen tomorrow, because this has been recorded on a Sunday afternoon UK time. What is going to happen tomorrow in terms of the test event at Bramley-Moore, where 10,000 fans are going to see, you know, Everton’s under 18 play, Wigan’s under 18.
George: Are you going?
Paul: I am going actually, yeah. And it is predominantly to test the facilities within the stadium and you know, within the stadium and the plaza. And it will also give an indication of what’s likely to happen.
And the demands that are placed upon the infrastructure in and around Bramley Moore. But in terms of public transport, in terms of ease of access, people who prefer to walk or have no option other than to walk back to where they’ve parked the car, how far away can they park the car?
The Liverpool City Council have imposed this parking restriction.
George: I can’t pull.
Paul: Well, it was always going to be the case that the parking restrictions would be there on match days and on event days because let’s not forget the stadium is likely to be used for events in future years.
And what was never considered, at least at the planning stage, was that the local authority would impose these restrictions 365 days a year, which they have done so.Why have they done that? Well, one can only assume it’s for a revenue raising exercise. And if any local politicians are listening to this and want to come back and challenge me on that, then they can do so, because I don’t see any logical reason for having that in an area of the city where there haven’t been parking problems. O
ne of the reasons why there haven’t been parking problems in the vast majority of that area is because of the lack of economic activity that exists within the area because there isn’t the development that isn’t the housing density or the population density that causes parking issues.
It’s very obvious that those issues would arise on match days or event days. It is not obvious at all why then those issues would arise on non match days or non event days.
George: Are you sorry Paul just to translate this into words I understand yeah are you saying that they’ve they’ve all gone oh there’s money to be made here well
Paul: Well, that has to be the logical conclusion. Why else would you say to people who’ve ordinarily been able to park their cars on the streets, be they residents or businesses for free in large areas within a 30 minutes walk of Bramley Moore?
Obviously, the closer you get to the city centre, the more there’s a greater case for it because there is parking pressures closer to the city centre than there is, say, if you’re going north of Bramley Moore, or indeed east of Bramley Moorel
. It’s not for me to answer why, but I think it’s for politicians to answer why have they imposed this.But that’s only one of the things.
The rest of it is about what transport infrastructure is in place, not for the 10,000 that go to the match tomorrow, but for the 53,000 that will go to 19, possibly many more games if we are involved in cup competitions on a more regular basis and could be 24, 25, could be more games this season.
What are we going to do about that development? And then let’s look at the impact of not having the infrastructure development around because it will discourage investment by private enterprises if it’s difficult for people to hang around the stadium, if it’s difficult for people to go there for other events.
This needs to be addressed.And we have, because of the problems with Everton football club and because it’s taken so long for the stadium to go through the planning process and then to be built. It’s been probably convenient to ignore these issues, but I don’t think it’s any longer convenient to do so, particularly against an agenda from the central government that says economic growth has to be the, is the primary mover of all policy development in the UK.
Well, here’s the test case. The city of Liverpool and the north of the city of Liverpool in particular is crying out for investment. Some of that investment will come from the private sector, but it can be enabled by innovative policy decisions from either local or from national politicians. And we’re not seeing evidence of that.And that has to happen.
And it has to happen both for the benefits of the city, but it also has to happen for the benefits of Everton Football Club and its current owners, its new owners who have invested hundreds of millions of pounds into that football club and have accepted the responsibility as custodians of Everton Football Club.that were good.
Sorry, that was a bit of a soapbox from me.
George:No, it wasn’t.
George: It’s an issue that a lot of us don’t understand.
Paul: Nobody’s nobody’s talking about it. And at least publicly. And I know people are talking about it privately, because I’ve had some of those discussions. And I’m not pointing the finger at anybody.This is not a time to look back and say, well, could have happened if we’ve done this, that and the other. Let’s draw a line under all of that. Let’s say this is the position that we’re in today.
What do we need to do in order to make the position in the future better than today is, and then to make Liverpool City and Everton Football Club Bramley-Moore, etc, etc. More competitive, more appealing to future investment. Because it’s only ultimately the future. It’s only future investment that will enhance the lives of ordinary people living in the north of Liverpool.
George: Do you have a horrible sinking feeling that this has been left too late?
Paul: It’s not a feeling. It’s an absolute fact that it has been left too late.
George:Oh, shit.
Paul:Well, let’s define what too late means. It’s too late in terms of when the stadium actually is open fully, i.e. August of this year.
But it’s not too late in terms of the future economic development of the city region and our competitiveness. And say, for example, our relative appeal to, for example, Manchester.
You know, Manchester has had so much inward investment, a lot of which has been driven by local politicians within Manchester and the Manchester region. We need to do the same. And I stress this is not a go at any individuals. You know, the Liverpool end of the East Lancashire Road, just saying it, this is how it is.
And we need to do something about it if we actually want to fulfill all of the potential that both our city has and the potential that Bramley-Moore itself creates.
Andy: Right. This sounds like a whole lot of bigger issues than Moyes are to deal with.
George: And that’s why he’s doing so well on not to deal with this.
Paul: Well, thank goodness he hasn’t had to deal with this because his job is to, you know, fairly and squarely, is to make sure that we stay in the Premier League.
Andy: Mmm.
Paul: You know, and I do accept that, you know, there have been huge difficulties, many of which have been created by the way the football club has been run in recent years, created by, you know, all of the peculiarities of ownership under, under Farhad Moshiri created by all of the uncertainty about the fact that we didn’t have the stadium fully financed, even though we were going ahead with the build of it.
The fact that perhaps we may not have been a Premier League football club. Perhaps we may not have even been in business.
I understand all of the reasons why people haven’t done things. What I’m saying is, all of those reasons don’t exist any longer.And they don’t exist because of the way that we’re now performing on the football pitch. They don’t exist because of the new ownership that we have of the football club itself.
What it needs now is people to recognize that’s the position that we’re in and say, right, how do we move forward from today? Forget what’s happened in the past, the past is gone.
How do we move forward from today? And that’s, I know, the people that can input influence and make decisions listen to this podcast. That’s the challenge from today moving forwards. How do we all get together?
Public sector, private sector, local government, national government, football club, and any other interested parties, and build something that helps the city and maintains the fact that Everton is the senior club in the city.
At the end of the day, that banner that was in the street and at the Derby match, we built this city. We didn’t build the city just by ourselves. There was an awful lot of other things. But from a footballing point of view, our contribution to the economy of Liverpool city has been immense over the years, and can be even greater in the years ahead. That’s what we have to focus on as a football club and as a city.
George: Cracking Paul
Andy: Thank you.
George: I hope the powers that be are listening, man. I hope you get a response. I hope you get inundated. I hope you get inundated. If you know what I mean.
Paul: Yeah, I mean, it’s open to challenge. If what I’m saying is unreasonable, or if there is a master plan that’s about to be unveiled tomorrow morning, and I appear then to be a complete idiot, because I’ve just said what I’ve said, without knowledge of that master plan, so be it, I don’t really mind. What I want to say is
George: What’s best for the city, what’s best for the club?
Paul: You know, there are literally thousands, probably tens of thousands of people my age and younger, who left Liverpool, not because we didn’t want to live in Liverpool, the city that we were brought up in, the city that we were educated in.
We left Liverpool because we had to find somewhere that could provide better work, higher wages and a better standard of life for ourselves and for our families.And that’s gone on for too long in our cities, gone on probably since the 1960s. So that’s six getting on for nearly seven decades, where people have had to leave the city because other areas offered better opportunities.
We’ve got to stop that. And this is, Bramley Moore is only a part of it, not a small part, but only a part of it. That’s what we have to turn around here. And Bramley Moore can be part of that and can, most importantly, be one of the things that kick-starts this, but we need people not only to recognise that, but we need the people who can do things about it to stand up and do it.
George: Welcome.
Paul: Can’t say anything more than that, really.
George: We should.
Andy: I mean, you know, if there was a gauntlet to be thrown, you’ve thrown it. And you’re right, you know, the city does mean investment regeneration, just as plenty of other cities do as well.But Bramley Moore has been, is the immediate catalyst to what needs to be done in the north end of, in the northern part of Liverpool.
Paul: Yeah. But I’m not for a moment saying the city hasn’t made huge advances in recent years, it has. And you know, as nowadays only an occasional visitor to the city. It’s very obvious that that has happened. But it’s a very small and selected part of the city.
And it’s probably only benefited a relatively small number of people.What we need to see now is that great a greater development that enhances the lives and opportunities for so many more people around the city. And everything can be part of that. And probably more should be one of the things that leads up.
Andy: you
George: Okay. That’s correct.
Paul: What have we got next? So we’ve got the test event tomorrow, which we’ll obviously talk about on the next podcast. That’s it. We have enough time after having beaten Manchester United 5 now.
Andy: Now there won’t be enough time.
George: No, there won’t be enough time.
Andy: In fact, you might not get a word in edgeways once you’ve done the introduction. Yeah, we’ll just do it.
Paul: I’ll record the introduction and I’ll just hand it over to you.
George: Don’t count your chickens.
Paul: No, it’s wrong to do that, but hey, there we go. Isn’t it fantastic with the idea that we actually could be united 5-0 and it not sound so outrageous? Done it before. And we have, we have, yeah.Okay guys, thank you so much for listening to our regular listeners. Apologies for the slight gap in episodes. Sorry, I’m at a loss for words here. And thanks for listening to my rant. And for George and Andy’s far more sensible analysis of the recent games.
George: So it’s all toleration levels, all the best, on we go, come on you blues. Indeed, thanks guys.
Andy: Cheers, pal.