Welcome to the transcript of this week’s Talking the Blues Podcast

Paul: Good morning, good afternoon or good evening, depending on where in the world you are and what time of the day. You’re listening to this last pre-season Talking the Blues. I can hardly believe that the season is about to start next week. 

Andy and George, how are you both? 

George: hot 

Andy: It’s rather warm around the gills. 

Paul: It’s unseasonably warm, isn’t it George, around 36 or 37 degrees, something like that. 

George: It’s hot and I’m fascinated by the fact that they’re predicting it will be 26 degrees at midnight tonight. So given that there’s no cloud either, the stargazing should be absolutely amazing tonight. And it’s shooting star season. 

My neighbour saw two last night. So I may be going round to his house to lie down on his lawn because he’s got no light pollution at all. 

Paul: Well, sounds good. Andy, you were at the football yesterday, did you see any shooting stars? 

George: Mm -hmm. 

Andy: It wasn’t a great deal of shooting until the second half, I’ll tell you. I mean, if we’re going to start the podcast on the game yesterday… Please. Right, I mean, for me personally, the first arc was a re -run of vast tracks of last season in that it was slow, ponderous, and largely aimless, and ultimately forgettable. 

You know, we fell behind to a goal from AS Roma, which was simplicity itself, a simple ball over the top, and you can’t give a Serie A striker that kind of space to get in behind your two centre -backs, and Jordan had no chance, so Roma deservedly were ahead at half -time, they’d had a couple of other chances. 

I mean, what I would say in the first half is their right -winger gave Micalenko a good workout, and in the second half he was very, very quiet, the right-winger, so I think Vitaliy had kind of figured out how to keep him quiet and engaged. 

It was a bit of a concern to see Coleman go off after 30 minutes. 

George: What was the news on that, Andy? Why was he off? 

Andy: I don’t know, I haven’t heard, to be honest, but it was a bit of a concern to see him go off, because obviously the only replay, the only really, if you like, primarily experienced cover we’ve got for either Coleman or Mykolenko in cover that matter is Ashley Young, who’s the oldest player in the squad by some margin. 

So that was a bit of a concern. I’m wondering if he’s older than me. Almost, but the first half for me was very, very forgettable. The second half was markedly different. I think Mr Dyche had obviously said to him, look guys, we need to play a bit quicker, we need to show a bit more intensity. 

These might be a week or so ahead of us. I think they’ve had better quality pre-season games, AS Roma, but we’re at home, it’s the final game before the season starts. Let’s get at it, and everything did to be fair, and almost completely dominated the second half, but until the equalised, there was no goal-scoring chances, but they were enjoying more possession and everything, but once the equalised through Calvert-Lewin, 

which was a nice little finish, took the ball, beat his balance, and then I think the goalie was expecting him to go for the post, and Don took it in at the near post, good finish, 1 -1, and putting that moment on, Everton really took control. 

The thing that was noticeable was when he made the changes, when he took McNeil, who I don’t think is quite 100% match fit yet, and Doucoure off, and Doucoure had been, for me, absolutely anonymous throughout the 60 odd minutes that he was on the pitch, and he moved Harrison from wide to the centre of midfield, and that looked a lot better, and the biggest plus point of the whole game was he roped him, the lad we brought him from Aston Villa. He loves quality, he’s got pace, he can tackle, he likes to move the ball quickly forward, and he’s got ideas in his head, that’s for sure. For me, he was a really big plus point yesterday. 

Gana Gueye was Gana Gueye, you know what you’re going to get, you know what you’re going to get from Tarko. O’Brien did okay, I think I put in a text message to you two yesterday, if we can keep Branthwaite through this transfer window, then O’Brien will be very good cover for Branthwaite and Tarko, who will clearly start as the two main central defenders, but O’Brien didn’t look out of place yesterday at all. 

Beto looked interested when he came on, he hustled and bustled, and nobody knows, he doesn’t know what he’s going to do, so defenders haven’t got a clue what he’s going to do either, and I think that’s kind of the interesting thing about Beto. 

I don’t think he’s a 90 -minute player under any circumstances, but he can certainly be a nuisance when he comes off the bench, if he applies himself as he did yesterday. So I suppose I would imagine that Dyche would be relatively happy with yesterday, certainly with the second half as compared to the first half, but they do need to find a way to create more chances, and they did create more chances when after Doucoure and McNeil had gone off, and Harrison moved inside. It was noticeably different. Harrison had two or three shots, they’re keeping an estimate, two or three decent saves, so all the good stuff really happened in the last half hour, but when he lobbed and went off with about 10 minutes to play, and he deserved to go off, he’s played every game in the pre -season, and he’s done really, really well, and he got a tremendous round of applause from the crowd. it was noticeable that Roma came back into the game when he went off the pitch. For me, he’s going to be absolutely vital for Everton this season because he’s a presence in midfield and he’s got ideas about how to get forward and we need to protect him because you just know that some of the cloggers that are going to be in the Premier League next year will target the boy. 

George: Is he a young man? 

Andy: He’s young. Yeah. Compared to me and you. Yeah. How dare you. I think he’s only about 23, 24. 

George: I don’t know. 

Andy: But, you know, he looks positive. That’s the thing. You know, when he gets the ball, he wants to go forward. He wants to move it. He wants to bring other players into the action. And we’ve missed that for a long time. 

You know, someone who wants to drive the game from midfield. 

George: 100% I watched the highlights on YouTube, which are quite comprehensive my God, Snoddon and the worst commentators ever heard that anyway, and he you’re right. His first touch is, let’s get on with this. 

Let’s put them under pressure. Let’s run at them. Yeah, and, you know, defenders hate people who run at them. And all that. Yeah. Martinez square passing nonsense. If you can make that a thing of the past, that would be great. 

Yeah, exactly. I mean, it’s funny actually, because I’ve watched the Charity Shield game between City and United and throughout the first half, you know, City had tons of possession and didn’t have a shot on target and United were much more direct in the game and made chances throughout the game that United looked much more aggressive, shall we say, in trying to find, in trying to, you know, trying to get to the goal, and ultimately they lost their own penalties. But I just thought, you know, you’ve just referred to Martinez and all the lateral passing and boring people to death with it and for me, you know, I know City have got great players and can play some great football, but it’s tedious at times watching it and I think, it pains me to say it, but I think United were a bit unlucky yesterday. 

But I mean, I’m just relating it to the way Everton played second half yesterday is that whatever Sean Dyche said at half time just to gee them up a bit worked and they look more direct, they look more purposeful and, you know, we’ve got to try and start to dominate games, you know, there are going to be games this season that we can’t dominate for one reason or another, you know, quality players on the other side, 

you know, differences in the way other teams are coached, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But equally there’s going to be games that Everton should be able to dominate and should be able to get the upper hand right from the off so that we don’t go through all this nail -biting nonsense of the last three seasons. 

You know, let’s attack teams, let’s put teams under pressure, let’s get some points early on the board and take pressure off ourselves and then the players can relax and play rather than worry about, oh, you know, is this the right thing to do? 

Or, you know, is this a dangerous pass? It’s such a quick game because we have to play quicker and the second half yesterday we did play quicker and it was so much more, it was much better to watch. 

George: It’s odd, isn’t it, because it does increase the risk, but you can feel that players prefer to play quickly. 

Andy: Yeah. And, you know, as supporters, you know, we all get, you know, we all get excited when we move the ball when it doesn’t matter who we support. If your team moves the ball quickly and gets players forward quickly, you know, it gives everyone a lift. 

I mean, the first thing it doesn’t get if people are sitting down, it gets them out of the seat because they think something’s going to happen. They’re expecting something to happen. So, you know, why, you know, yesterday, the first half, like I said, for me, it was forgettable, absolutely forgettable. 

It was, it was a nice little training session for Roma. But it wasn’t what, it wasn’t what we wanted from Everton. But the halftime team talk did the bit and, and the, and the, and the players responded and, and India thoroughly deserved the Jordan were maybe a little bit unlucky. 

George: How was Jasper Thingy when he came home? 

Andy: I like the look of that boy. He’s certainly keen to take three kicks whenever we get a free-kick heel. He’s going to be the main man on free kicks without a shadow of a doubt. 

George: Right. 

Andy: Without a shadow of a doubt, anywhere within 30 yards or closer to the goal, you can bet your bottom dollar that he’s going to be the first one to take the ball. 

George: And what about the rest of his play? 

Andy: He’s busy, he did okay and Ndiaye came on and he was very direct. 

George: Yeah, he looks like he’s got the pace to lose somebody over four or five yards. I was kind of getting to, you know, his name Lundquist? Lindstrom. Lindstrom. Has he got that pace handy? 

Andy: He’s not got that pace of Ndiaye, but he’s no slouch. The thing with Ndiaye was, he clearly yesterday when he came on, he only had one thing in his mind, and that was, if I’m getting the ball, I’m going, and you lot better keep up. 

George: And if Coleman is broken, now that Godfrey’s gone, what are we supposed to do? Don’t say Holgate. 

Paul: Are you sitting down, George? 

Andy: It’s not a case of what we’d do, it’s what Sean Dyche will do and Sean Dyche will fall back on Ashley Young. 

George: Right. 

Andy: I don’t think there’s any doubt about that, but then there’s the young lad who came on late on for the last 10 minutes or so, Armstrong, and he was right -sided, and he’s quite a big lad as well. He’s had some game time during the pre -season, so I think maybe Dyche is thinking, you know, if we need an extra man right back, then it might be that boy, and Young can play left-back if necessary, 

in case Mykolenko gets hurt. I mean, we’re light at full -back, if we’re honest. You know, Mykolenko’s a decent full -back, but we have no genuine cover for him. Coleman and Young are both, you know, sadly. 

You know, they’re well on the wrong side of 30, aren’t they? So they’re not going to get any quicker, and certainly Roma, the first half, they look to target both the full -backs. Like I said, the right -winger gave Mykolenko quite an interest in the opening 20 minutes, and the guy on the Roma left wing did exactly the same thing to Seamus Coleman, and then Young when Young came on. 

George: Well, you would, wouldn’t you? I mean, if somebody was asking us how you would attack Everton and you’d go for the right fallback. 

Andy: Yeah, but like I said, I think, you know, I think overall, I think Dyche will be relatively happy with what he saw in the second half. I don’t think he’ll be, I would imagine he’ll confine the first half to history and just look to build on what he saw in the second half, which was eroding and taking control of the midfield. 

And then like I said, for me, the interesting thing was when Doucoure went off and he moved Harrison inside to accommodate Lindstrom, Harrison looked much more effective and he looked much more interested as well. 

George: That’s very interesting because he Harrison must know that, you know, like we all know in playing football, he hasn’t actually got that spark to beat somebody in, you know, like what you want a winger to do, which is, you know, you’ve got three yards here and it’s me who’s going to make the cross like, you know, I was thinking the other day about Johnny Morrissey and what a strange athlete he was. 

Yeah, but he was and my God did he get his crosses in. And I think Harrison knows that he is not that player, he has to cut back inside. And so what you’re suggesting and you might well be 100% right Andy is that he goes, Oh no, let me play there. 

I’m much more fun at plus. He’s much more likely to get a shot off and he is a really good shooter. 

Andy: Yeah, he had two or three decent efforts yesterday. He can shoot. And I think, you know, I mean, it’s probably, I mean, it’s only a pre -season game, so it wasn’t at full tilt, but I was really disappointed with Doucoure yesterday. 

He looked, well, like I said, anonymous. He didn’t contribute very much at all. And we did look massively different after he’d gone off. Lindstrom came on and Ndiaye came on, giving us a bit more pace. Harrison inside into the centre of the midfield. 

And when I said he looked happier, he looked more interested like this, this is where I can be more effective. And he did his damnedest. You know, the goalie hadn’t made a save till we scored. And he was considerably, he was by far the busier goalie after that, maybe at least, well, at least two from Harrison, one from DCL, kind of thinks he’s probably made a good save from somebody else as well. 

I can’t remember now. 

George: When he made a good save from Ndiaye, didn’t he? Yeah. 

Andy: Yeah so you know the second half was encouraging the first half was forgettable so you know let’s hope that they themselves the players and Sean Dyche have learned from that that we need to play much better. 

I mean we’ve said it for umpteen years now we need to play with a higher, much higher tempo from start to finish. 

George: Yeah. 

Andy: that’s my summary and that’s my take on yesterday. 

George: Yeah, thanks. 

Andy: That’s a pleasure. 

Paul: No, no. Because, well, again, I didn’t see the game at all. I was thinking to myself a couple of days ago, there used to be a time when in the summer, as much as I loved the summer, like all the different summer sports and stuff, I’d really miss Everton. 

It was only like three weeks at the beginning of the season, or four weeks, whatever it might be, as is the case now, one week. But I realised the other day that, and this may not come as a shock to anybody, but I’ve not had that thought at all, all summer. 

Andy: It’s called maturity Paul. 

Paul: Well, in my seventh decade, I’ve suddenly become mature. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And probably it’s a bit premature as well. But no, it’s just it’s just like one of those weird things. It was it was like, oh, you know, after this weekend, it’s the start 

George: No, I know what you mean, because what used to happen was that I would spend most of the close season, you know, scouring the gossip column, so who we might buy. Now, I read the gossip columns dreading who we’ve got to sell. 

And it’s not quite the same mindset, is it? I mean, you know, come next Saturday, I’ll be command stuff. 

Paul: Yeah, I wonder whether, is it just how I’m feeling about everything currently, because I’m not feeling massively positive about them as, again, a lot of people will know and perhaps understand some of the reasons why. 

Or is it just football generally that I’m not that enthused about? 

Andy: There is that to take into account. I tend to agree with you that there’s certain things in football now that just almost make you think, is it worth bothering? And I hate to say that, because it’s the national game, it’s the game we’ve all played to some level, even if it was only at school and in the park. 

But the way football has gone and maybe the way it’s structured now, it’s lost. The preseason has lost the excitement of gearing up for the new season, plus the fact that when we were kids, I know we’re hankering back to yesteryear and people say we shouldn’t and everything. 

But back in the day, you’d get to this stage of the year, and of the 20 clubs or 22 clubs or 24 clubs that were in the first division back in the old time, everyone would go into the season, or certainly half the teams would go into the season harboring genuine thoughts of being champions. 

And I would wager now that when all the pundits make their predictions for who’s going to win this year, that every single one of them will put City as champions. Every single one of them will put City as champions. 

George: So would you, so would I. 

Andy: Well, it’s boring. 

George: I couldn’t agree more. 

Andy: It’s utterly boring. What is the point in playing nine months of the year, knowing full well that you know, everybody else, everybody else is fighting for second, third and fourth. That to me, you know, I just find it disappointing that the game is the way the game is now, that it’s become a procession. 

It’s like Formula One. You know, people love Formula One, but to me, it’s just a procession. And that is taking something away from football for me, for sure. 

Paul: Yeah. 

George: Range Bells, sorry, call one. 

Paul: No, I did the like, like I do every year for the Guardian, you know, like the Everton fan prediction. And, you know, they always ask for the top four. And, you know, almost without thinking, you put City down as number one. 

Yeah. And then I put Liverpool down as number two, probably should have put Arsenal down as number three. And that’s it. I put United down and then I put Aston Villa down as number four, because I think, you know, Villa got a great manager and did well last year. 

And, you know, it just makes it slightly more interesting that you throw another club into the mix. But actually, all you’re doing is, you know, you don’t really have to think that hard about it. The most interesting bit is when they ask you, do you think it’s going to get relegated? 

Because that’s actually probably the only, I think it’s now they become the only part of the league where there’s genuine, genuine jeopardy. And in a sense, it’s become so formulaic at the top that it is actually what happens at the bottom little heater. 

It’s more interesting. Maybe that’s because everything has had a tendency to hang around in that part of the playground. But yeah, I just just as a total aside, I wasn’t really going to talk about this. 

But I think one of the thoughts also, in terms of football currently, and everything specifically, I suppose, is, you know, I just like a lot of people just watch two weeks of the Olympics. And I know the Olympics are horribly corrupt. 

And I know there’s cheating. And I know there’s this and there’s that. And, you know, the whole idea of nationhood and that type of stuff, you know, all has question marks around it in the modern sort of era. 

But actually, when you pull that to one side, and you actually watch the competitions, and it doesn’t really matter what the sport is, just watch the competitions. It’s actually sports. And it’s actually people competing against each other. 

And in the large part, respecting each other, congratulating their opponents when their opponents commiserating with their opponents when they come when their opponent loses. And in the main part, again, respecting the referees and the people who run the competitions that they’re actually involved in. 

And if that sounds horribly old fashioned and Corinthian, well, it is. 

Andy: Yeah, I think it’s, to be honest, I think it’s been a great Games. Yeah. I think, I think, I think the authorities in France and obviously Paris in particular have done a tremendous job of hosting the games. 

It did make me laugh when I watched the Surfing, you know, from to E .T. Cause I thought to myself, where’s the surf in France? Or are they doing it in the Bay of Biscay? And it was to E .T., which is obviously former French Polynesia, but a beautiful setting. 

Paul: Yeah, yeah, it was fantastic, wasn’t it? But yeah, I was thinking, George, because you’re not a million miles away, are you from from Biarritz? And the good people, the good people of Biarritz must have been pretty, pretty pissed that it was on the other side of the world. 

George: Well, that must have been a big decision because, you know, so much of it is tied up with development and tourism and stuff, you know, various things must have been a bit pissed, really. 

Paul: Yeah, I would think so. Maybe the Basque tendencies will come out again. 

Andy: Mmhmm. 

Paul: and the separatists will start up again. But no, it’s just an interesting observation. To me at least, and I know I’m putting aside a load of things that are completely wrong about the Olympics and everything else. 

But actually, if you just boil it down to actually watching the events, it’s been really enjoyable. 

Andy: Yeah. 

Paul: And, and actually, I suppose, you know, one of the criticisms that’s levied towards me is that, you know, I don’t focus on football, I focus on the business of football, football. Actually, there may be a lesson there just like to go back watching football. 

That’s not to say I’m not going to ignore the business of football because particularly with everything, I think it’s really important that somebody at least does hold people to account. But maybe you need to try and find a re -finder, a love for the game because I don’t really feel in love with the game at all at this moment in time. 

George: It is. Here’s my take on that. I watched the Everton Coventry match, less said the better. But one of the interesting things about it was that there were no extra minutes of playing time, because when there were fouls and free kicks and things, the players, being men, got up and carried on. 

Yesterday, there was no extra time in either half of the Everton Roma match, because what was the point in? But you know for a fact that next Saturday, somebody gets clattered, oh, we’re rolling around, oh, the trainers are on the pitch. 

And it will all change. Nobody will, you know, bury. And those kind of things where you go, hang on, I’m being manipulated here for some reason that isn’t clear to me. And what takes you out of love with the game? 

Andy: Well, I mean, broadening out further, I mean, a couple of weeks ago, Man City were fined £2 million. Yeah. But deliberately delaying the start of games or second halves. I mean, Guardiola has come out since and said he’ll shorten his team to his half time team talks, and I think he’s whitewashing over the fact that and I’ll probably be proven wrong on this. 

But it just strikes me as it’s a dark art of delaying because of all the occasions that they did it, a lot of them or most of them were in games that had something hanging on it like it was a delay to the start of the second half against West Ham in the last game of the season. 

And you immediately think that’s so that Arsenal are kicking off two or three minutes earlier and they’ll know what they need to do in the last four or five minutes because they’ll know the result from the Emirates. 

George: And this is an exact straight line from what Paul was saying two weeks ago about David Brailsford, is it? The sort of director of cheating at Old Trafford, saying you’ve got to win all the little battles, all the ten yards you pinch for the throw-in, and all those things take the taste of the game. 

And everybody knows, everybody knows why you love football, because it’s such an easy, fun game to play. And there are so many things in football that you can’t get up in an instant. Yeah. That take someone like you, Paul, and someone like me, where you go, oh f*ck, for I am out loud, will you stop all that nonsense about? 

Or mustn’t say that word, must I? It’s just, you know, I understand why you’re not enthusiastic about the game. Not only is the league that we’re in a shoe in for everybody except us, or that’s what it feels like. 

But it’s not an evolutionary stage anymore. It used to be an evolutionary stage. You go, well, if we finish sixth or seventh this year, that’ll be really good. That’s way, way out of what I’m really talking about, I suppose, is the fact that the sport is now about money. 

Andy: Yeah. 

George: And that’s a bit sickening when the whole reason we all fell in love with football is because it was such fun to play in the park or at whatever level you ever played it at. It is fun to play footy and it’s not always fun to watch it. 

Andy: No. 

George: And it’s dealable with that the authorities aren’t interested, and that I don’t understand. But that’s because I presume that they judge the success of the product by how much money is coming in, and the money tells them it’s going great, mate, going great. 

Paul: I think, I mean, there’s so much to unpack from that, George. Is it almost what you just said is almost a podcast in itself? Because yes, it is about the money. I think going back to the Brailsford situation, which is about marginal gains. 

It’s all about marginal gains. And where we’ve got to is not only do players compete, obviously compete with each other and do all of these actions, which create small gains, but clubs do against each other. 

Like, for example, as Andy was just saying, with regards to the city kicking off a couple of minutes late. But actually, we’ve got a situation now where the leagues themselves are recognizing that they’re in competition with other leagues and they’re doing all they can do to advantage them. 

They will say that the French league over the Spanish league or the Italian league over. Can we, you know, grab back some of the advantages that the Premier League has got? And then when you get to organizational levels like UEFA, like the Premier League, like FIFA, they’re all competing with each other because they all want a bigger slice of the pie. 

And I think what they’ve all forgotten about is actually their job is to make the pie tastier, not bigger. Yes. And their job is if they want a bigger slice of the pie, make a bigger pie. Make the game bigger, not at the cost of somebody else, but by making the product better. 

And I did a podcast earlier this week. Sorry, guys, away from Talking the Blues. And it was really interesting because Matt Slater was on it. Matt Slater from the Athletic that a lot of people will know. 

Paul: He’s a Southend United fan. And, you know, as always, enjoyed football in the lower leagues, although, you know, for a time, Southend did get to the second division. And he remembered he said, actually, the most memorable occasion for Southend fans is when they beat Manchester United. 

And I meant to look it up when it was because I couldn’t recall it off the top of my head and knew that you would both enjoy that. But you’re the guy that. 

Andy: Are we not predictable? 

George: He watched him yesterday, but was sorry they didn’t win. 

Paul: During the podcast, it was my immediate thought, well, Andy and George will like that. But then the other guy that was on the podcast with me, who isn’t really known in football circles, does run an important division of his company, which is like an analytical division with regards to football. 

A guy called Bart Huby, who was born on the Wirral, is a Tranmere fan. Well, he says he’s a Tranmere and a Liverpool fan, but he’s really just a Tranmere fan. And Matt and Bart got into this discussion about how popular and how much the popularity of the lower leagues is growing. 

They talk for about 10 or 15 minutes, and if you haven’t listened to it, please, people, if you get the opportunity to try and listen to it. Because they just talked about the joy of going to a match, of being close to the action, not having to buy ticket weeks in advance, just turning up, taking your son or your daughter, or taking your wife, your girlfriend, whomever, to the game. 

You know, you can get a pint. It doesn’t cost a fortune. And you see, you know, a relatively authentic game of football going on in front of you. Right. The contract, just again, thinking about the contrast between how they were expressing their support for the clubs that they love, and how I currently feel about expressing my support for Everton. 

And I still support Everton and will do so forever and a day. That doesn’t mean to say that I necessarily love the game that Everton are currently involved in. 

George: No, I don’t find that hard to understand at all, you know, the times when I’ve been working in Scotland, I’ve, you know, had days off, I’ve gone to watch Queen of the South, I’ve gone to watch Ayr United, and your man’s absolutely right, the experience is completely different, completely different and very, very, very enjoyable. 

And the standard of catering at Ayr United, sausage and mash. I was wondering when we’d get on to the pies. Andy, I’m telling you that five minutes before the first half ended, there’s this massive queue formed outside this little tiny wooden shack inside which the Doris and Ada, and they’ve got these vats of food and I queued up thinking this, and it was absolutely brilliant, mate. 

I can’t remember who the other one was, Arbroath went to that was good catering. 

Andy: As is Caledonian Thistle’s got good grub. 

George: Yeah, yeah, I went there as well, freezing cold, my god, it was bad. Anyway. 

Paul: Although, it’s not funny for them, strangely enough, they’ve got some ownership issues at the moment, and not all is well in the good club of Inverness Thistle, Caledonian Thistle. And of course, Duncan Ferguson is still manager, isn’t he? 

Yeah, and Jamie Carragher’s son plays for them as well, because I know Jamie goes up to quite a few of the games. But yeah, it was just really interesting, just two guys who got an interest in, dare I say it, like big football in terms of Matt Slater, and this other guy Bart. 

But yeah, actually, when it comes to their own experiences of football, they prefer to go and watch lower league sides. Interesting. Yeah. And the other interesting bit that they talked about, and I’m sorry if anybody has already listened to this, because they will know, is that they talk about the lack of distinction now between the lower levels of the football league, and what used to be called non -league football, that actually, those leagues themselves are now much closer together. And there’s a level of competitiveness now when a team comes up, there’s a good chance that they can stay up. And when a team goes down, they can rebuild and go back up again. 

But the other thing that they talked about is that, you know, almost on a weekly basis, the attendances of these games just ticks over and increases and increases. And I suppose that’s evidence of other people, perhaps, getting a little fed up of Premier League football. 

Although, you know, the Premier League themselves would argue, well, you know, every ground is a sellout, even though you can see empty seats, every round, you know, every ticket is sold. Revenues are up this, you know, we’re still the most competitive team in the league, sorry, in Europe, you know, to go back to the competitiveness amongst leagues. 

The people at the top of the game don’t think there’s anything wrong with the game, and that’s why things aren’t changing. 

George: Tiresome, but very, very true. That’s what it feels like. And so, you know, when we watch next Saturday’s match, it will break down into sections every whole stacks of it that you just don’t know, and whole stacks of ego. 

Yeah, that’s why I watch football. It’s extremely frustrating. And then, you know, the bit I can never get to is that this is solvable. You can stop all the cheating. You can stop all the time wasting. 

You can, you know, without, it seems to me, harming the product at all. Anyway. 

Andy: It’s great, bro. 

George: So again, I’m 

Andy: I don’t disagree. I mean, you only have to watch any other sport or most of the sports, like Paul was saying about the respect for, you know, referees and umpires and everything in the games that are going on in Paris now. 

The level of sportsmanship and camaraderie between all the competitors has been fantastic. But that will go out the window next weekend and football when referees get surrounded with a bad decision or what have you and put yards, get pinched at throw -ins and corners are taken from outside the quadrant and etc etc etc. 

Players dive in, players fake injury, you know, because they have a right to go down. My God. That’s what sours it because, like you said, you know we’ve all played the game whether it was only on the park or the school field or what have you. 

I mean, you did it because you enjoyed it. Whatever position you played, you know, you did it because you wanted to do it, you wanted to play, you wanted to test yourself against other kids and what have you but the test now is how to survive financially and how to bend the rules financially which brings you on to Chelsea. 

I mean, I read something on a train yesterday, yesterday morning that Chelsea have agreed terms to buy around his name, Peto, or something like 54 million. 

George: Something like that. The wingo, gesso, mezzo. 

Andy: Neto. And he’s their 35th signing since the new ownership under this Boehley fella. 35 signings. I mean, they’ve spent an absolute fortune. And yet, you know, we had a points deduction last year over a financial irregularity that could have been, you know, to do with the stadium costs, etc, etc. 

Forest loss points, Newcastle are having to sell players so that they don’t get caught short of profit and sustainability rules, etc. And yet Chelsea just seem to have, they seem to have found every financial loophole. 

What did they do the other year they sold, they sold a hotel to themselves, or what I don’t know, I can’t remember now, but it’s just, you know, there’s it just enhances the feeling that there’s one rule for one rule for some and other rules for the rest. 

George: How are Chelsea getting away with this poll? 

Andy: Well before we get into Chelsea, because then we’ll move on to United, what’s the score with this peroary that broke during the week that United had received a bigger payment than the rest of the clubs? And that helped them avoid profitability and sustainability sanctions. 

Paul: I’m not so sure it was a bigger payment Andy, it was effectively a bigger allowance, wasn’t it? 

Andy: That’s why I’m asking the question, Paul. I only saw the headlines. I’ve been really busy this week. I’ve not had a chance to sit and read it properly. That’s why I asked the question because I figured you’d know. 

Paul: OK, so I think there’s a degree of sensationalism about it, which is not not unsurprising, of course, because that sells newspapers and gets clicks on articles online and essentially two things. 

So, as you all know, that Ineos, under Sir Jim Ratcliffe, bought 25% of Manchester United and the costs of doing that were around about £30 million. Now that you could argue that, well, it was the Glazers that were selling the shares to Ineos, it wasn’t Manchester United selling shares to Ineos, so therefore the Glazers should pick up that cost themselves, but of course, the Glazers being Glazers, it wasn’t the Glazers that picked up the cost, it was Manchester United that picked up the cost, and therefore that appeared within their profits and loss accounts. 

So their financial performance was, it was affected detrimentally to the cost of £30 million. The Premier League turned around and said, well, this is an exceptional cost, it’s not really a cost that’s involved in the normal day to day running at the football club, therefore you can take it off your profitability and sustainability rules. 

So that was one thing. And it’s probably difficult to argue against that. Some people tried, but I don’t think they succeeded particularly in that. The second one is potentially more contentious, and that was them being given a, effectively, a £40 million allowance against losses that Manchester United said related specifically to Covid, and they related to things like, during the Covid period, they couldn’t do their sum at all, so they lost revenue as a result of not being able to do their sum at all. They couldn’t do various sponsor activities, so they lost the revenue from those various sponsor activities, and there were a couple of other factors as well, I think there were four factors. 

And so, effectively, the Premier League said, yeah, we will accept all of these arguments. Oh, one of the other ones, sorry, it was, and this is an important one, was that one of their commercial partners went into administration as a result of Covid, and Manchester United claimed that that must therefore be a Covid -related cost, and therefore it must be, they must be able to use that allowance, or place it in the allowance, sorry. Anyway, so they got these two allowances, £40 million and £30 million, obviously it makes £70 million, which meant that Manchester United slipped in underneath the £105 million figure. 

And the question is whether or not, you know, that was a fair treatment. Well, yes and no. I find it difficult to accept that Everton can complain too much, because of all of the Premier League clubs, we made the biggest Covid -related claims over the period. 

And so we were, we were well treated by the Premier League with regards to using Covid as a reason for our losses. So it’s a little bit rich that we then complain about United, but on the flip side, United claimed that it wasn’t their fault, there’s no way that they could possibly have foreseen one of their sponsors going into administration, and therefore losing that income was not foreseeable, therefore it should be allowed. 

And yet at the same time the Premier League argued with Everton, well, the fact that Russia invaded Ukraine was not a reasonable reason for you to claim that the losses that you made because you didn’t get the USM sponsorship should apply to, you know, the Covid, the Covid calculations, also the PSR calculations. 

So there is, again, an element of inconsistency here between the treatments of Everton and the treatments of Manchester United, and I think that’s a valid argument to make, although it has to be pointed out that with Manchester United it was the Premier League that made those observations and put forward those, those, effectively those rules. 

In the case of Everton, it was the Independent Commission that made that decision, so it was two slightly different bodies who made the decision, but nevertheless there is an inconsistency behind not being able to take into account, as I said, the situation in Ukraine a sponsor went into administration and again it just comes back to this whole thing doesn’t it about inconsistencies a lack of good good governance and a lack of clear and you know rules that everybody can look at understand and clearly see when somebody has broken the rules or somebody has not broken the rules or when somebody’s trying to you know push the bend the rules as far as they possibly can not in the spirit of the game but just by bending the rules and I think that’s a situation that we’ve got here with Manchester United and of course because it is Manchester United the media are generally supportive of this decision whilst you know almost all of the other clubs and the fans of the other clubs are not or not and again it just doesn’t I don’t think it helps the game and it creates this impression as you say Andy that there’s you know one even if the rules are the same the rules are then differently applied to different clubs depending upon which club it is. 

Andy: Well, yeah, I mean, because funnily enough, when I first saw it, it was being raised by Aston Villa fans, I think, and Newcastle fans. It wasn’t it wasn’t Evertonians that actually raised it. 

It was I think it came out of something on Talk sport. I don’t listen to talk sport. But I saw a tweet on Twitter. And I’m sure it had been posted by a group of Aston Villa fans saying, I’ll be I’ll be, you know, literally saying I’ll be very surprised if Evertonians are not open arms when they find out about this. 

Paul: Yeah, it did originate from Talk sports. Well done. Sorry, sorry, you could have crossed you. It did originate from talk sports. Right. What’s his name? Stefan Borson. He was a Manchester City fan and it’s not liked by many Evertonians, it has to be said. 

But yeah, that’s where, that’s where the story originated. 

Andy: Right but just you know when i mean i mean yeah we are biased against United but when you know as soon as you saw it you think yeah here we go again two two two two two two rules one rule for those one rule for them they’re the media darlings etc etc etc so i mean that that’s what ticks you off about football and then and then you know getting back to the getting back to the Chelsea situation where they spend money like it’s going out of passion you’ve got a squad that’s bigger than anybody else’s and because they then farm them all out and we’ll have you but they just appear to well they’ve ever got really very smart accountants but they just seem to be able to manipulate um the finances to enable them to continue spending like crazy 

Paul: Sadly, I mean, that is what you just said at the end is very accurate. They have the best accountants, they have the best lawyers, they can afford the best and they use them and they use them to, again, manipulate the rules or to bend the rules, to push the rules as far as possible. 

So to go back to George, your question, and you know, what did they do here? Chelsea Football Club owns or owned a couple of hotels. They also owned a car park and what they did is they sold the two hotels and they sold a car park to another company that’s owned by the people that own Chelsea. 

So the ownership didn’t change. It just like taking something out of the left hand drawer and putting it in the right hand drawer. It’s just like moving the assets across and by virtue of moving the assets across, they create a profit for Chelsea, which obviously that they can then use to cover some of the losses that they’ve made elsewhere, which then means that they can continue to spend money on players and still yet come in under the permitted 105 million of losses because they’ve created this artificial profit from moving one asset from one place to another without it actually ever changing. 

Paul: You know, the ownership has legally changed because it’s gone from one company to another. But if you look at actually the people who own the companies, the are the same people and it’s nonsense. 

And, you know, it has to be that type of thing has to be stamped out and hopefully it will be stamped out by the independent regulator. But as is proven with Manchester City and their PSR dispute with the Premier League, the clubs will always, always be able to afford better lawyers than the Premier League. 

And it gets to the point, actually, where the Premier League starts to get criticized for spending too much money on legal fees and not distributing that money to the clubs as against the money that, for example, the Premier League spends on trying to prosecute Manchester City. 

The legal fees for that comes out of the ultimately comes out of the fund that would be distributed towards all the other clubs. So a situation where all effectively all the other clubs are paying the Premier League’s legal fees, not directly, obviously, but as a result of in their case against Manchester City. 

Andy: It’s mental and are we any, it’s probably a ridiculous question, but are we any nearer any resolution and any answer on any of the 115 charges that have been levied against city? I’m guessing the answer is no. 

Paul: No, the talk wasn’t that several months ago that they were actually going to set a date for the case to be. 

George: Bye! 

Paul: hearing to be started, that date has not been released yet. But again, it’s a game of politics, isn’t it? You make an announcement, you get all the publicity, you don’t do anything about it, nobody really holds you to account. 

And, you know, time goes on. 

George: Once we’re talking about publicity, I’ll give you my take on it and then you can correct it. Because listening to you then talk about United, I thought, he’s ever so reasonable, Paul, isn’t he? And actually, there’s no reason to be reasonable about Manchester United, Paul. 

They’re a bunch of money-grabbing bastards and always have been. But setting that aside, I’ve forgotten what I was going to say now. Damn, I stood up as well. I’ve got myself into rant mode. What was I saying? 

I can’t remember. Damn. I’ll do it next week. 

Paul: You can’t leave us like this, George. You’ve got to remember it. Come on. No pressure. 

George: It was something to do with you being reasonable. I honestly cannot remember, damn, is this what happens with the United, you see, you go off into a little rabbit hole of hatred. Oh yeah, I know what it was. 

It was about bullshit, really. It’s about, am I right in thinking that Mr. Textor, who is being touted as the latest savior of our Great Club, cannot make a bid for Everton Football Club until he has sold his shares in Crystal Palace, which he has been trying to sell since Moses was in the fire brigade. 

And what are we actually watching as we go through this pantomime of what Mr. Textor might love to do? Just let me finish, Paul, because, you know, as an Evertonian, I wonder if Moshiri and or Textor, I’m not really bothered about Mr. Textor for the moment, understands what embarrassment is. I’m embarrassed by what’s going on about Everton Football Club and what other fans must think as to who we are at the minute and what we’re playing at. 

But anyway, the point is Mr. Textor can’t buy the club, can he? 

Paul: As it stands no he can’t and you know this is the second attempt that he’s made in several months well since 777 fell by the way in May of this year so his first solution to the problem that he owns a significant stake in Crystal Palace was he said to the Premier League well don’t worry about the Palace shares yeah you know I am trying to sell them and I will sell them at some point but I tell you what I’ll do I’ll stick them in a trust for the time being and I’ll have nothing to do with them they’ll just be sitting there and then when they’re sold they’re sold and you know let me buy everything in the meantime quite understandably and quite correctly the Premier League said not a chance you know um you own a significant stake in one Premier League club doesn’t matter who it is you can’t own a single share in another Premier League club until you do until you actually dispose of those shares and that’s the rules and that should be the rules because otherwise we then get into all sorts of difficulties 

George: So what is this pantomime that we’re going through then? So. 

Paul: John Textor, I’m going to be careful and try and be as precise as possible. John Textor owns this sort of multi, effectively like a multi club operation. He owns Olympic Lyonnaise in France, right? 

When you actually start to dig into is something called Palace Holdings, sorry Eagle Holdings. Eagle, Eagle Holdings. When you start digging into it, you realize that maybe this guy hasn’t quite got the liquidity that all of the assets that he has would make you believe that he has because he’s got the stake in, you know, one of France’s biggest clubs and he’s got the stake in Crystal Palace and, you know, to be fair to Crystal Palace, Crystal Palace have done extremely well in recent years and, you know, established Premier League Club now. They’re hoping to rebuild their main stand such as to increase the size of Selhurst Park. 

You know, well, you know, this guy’s doing well and he’s got a really interesting sort of commercial/entrepreneurial record, very, very unconventional. This guy’s doing well, but then you start to look at it in more detail and you realize that perhaps he doesn’t quite have the degree of liquidity that these assets suggest that he has because when he bought the French Club, Club OL, he borrowed 

George: You say Olympic mayonnaise? No, mayonnaise. I suddenly saw a whole new marketing line there. 

Paul: I don’t think he did. So when he bought them, he borrowed 420 million euros, a significant part of the overall sum that he spent in acquiring them. And he actually used his holding in Crystal Palace as part of the security in order to get the loan. 

So the Crystal Palace for his holding in the French club. Elsewhere, he’s in talks with various banks and various investors about taking his football club operations and actually listing them on the New York Stock Exchange. 

And the bankers are saying to him, well, okay, you know, you can do that. But is Crystal Palace the right club that you want to be listing on a New York Stock Exchange? It might be an investor idea if actually you’re able to buy Everton because Everton would make it make this offering in New York, a much more attractive proposition to all of our investors in exactly the same way that 777 wanted to buy Everton because it then made their multi club operation a much more attractive proposition to future investors. 

And so we’re caught up in this game whereby it suits John Textor’s purposes, even if he realises that there’s very little chance of him being able to buy everything because he can’t sell his Palace shares. 

And he’s been trying to do so for quite some time. And it still suits his purposes for it to be known that he’s interested and he wants to buy everything and he’s making all these positive noises. It also suits far and serious purposes in the sense that, you know, he’s coming under a little bit of pressure, much of it generated by me, but other people as well now, saying, you know, just what is going on with the football club, because effectively, the football club has been up for sale now for over two years, in fact, almost since the time when Russia invaded Ukraine, he, you know, in 2022, he said he wanted investment, but actually, very quickly, everybody realised that actually meant he just wanted to sell the club. 

And, you know, we’re nowhere near as selling in the club now than we were in 2022. And there’ve been a couple of chances come through, and we’ve wasted a lot of time on that. And then there’s been one or two credible people, like the Friedkin Group were credible, but then they didn’t like what they saw. 

And so, Moshiri, it’s not, you know, as I’ve been at great lengths to try and explain in both articles and podcasts, it’s not easy to sell Everton at the moment for a whole load of reasons. And there are many other five or six other Premier League clubs currently up for sale. 

And so it’s a very competitive market. And as I say, Everton are not the easiest to sell, regardless of the fact that we’ve got this brand new stadium just coming over the horizon. So it suits Moshiri for it to be known that we’ve got somebody who on the face of it might appear to be a credible investor, an incredible football club owner. 

And you can see lots of Everton fans saying, yeah, he’s the type of guy that we need. And when perhaps Moshiri knows as well as John Texter knows that it’s never going to happen, because it just fills a gap until somebody else comes along that may be able to buy the club. 

George: Cheers. Does that make sense? Yes, it does make sense. It doesn’t take away my embarrassment as an Everton fan, but you just have the feeling that we’re being played with like a PR tool for somebody else, and I find it hugely distasteful. 

Paul: Well, we’re just an asset, aren’t we, in an investment portfolio for Farhad Moshiii and Textor trying to use us in exactly the same way. Effectively commoditizing the club. The club becomes a commodity that suits his purposes as against, you know, I really want to buy everything for football because these are the plans I got for it. 

You know, I love the fan base, I love the city, I love the history of the club, you know, all the things that the fans want to hear. That doesn’t enter into this equation at all. And if it does, and you know, one of Textors people are listening to this and come and explain to us how they would do that. 

Even in the sort of fanciful world where they actually manage to sell their Palace shares. And he’s got the liquidity to buy everything because the other point is, and again, as I say, once you start doing the, you know, the detailed analysis of his finances, how does he buy Everton without borrowing lots of money? 

And how does he repay all of Everton’s debts? Or how does he borrow money off people at a lower rate than Everton are currently borrowing money off? Again, one of the things, again, if you do the analysis, if you do the detail, it’s not just me that’s done this, there’s a number of French, I suppose, bloggers, people like me, social media people who have investigated this, and there’s another English guy as well. 

Some of the monies that they’ve used or that Textorr has used to borrow in order to buy the football assets. The rates of interest at which they’re being charged are very similar to some of the rates of interest that Everton are being charged. 

So that, to me, suggests that he wouldn’t be as significant an upgrade in terms of how investors perceive him as an owner as against how they perceive Moshiri with all his problems at the moment. 

And that’s not what I want for Everton, I want better than that for Everton. And I think all fans, if they realise that, would want the same. 

George: Yeah, I agree with that. I’d like to feel some dignity in my football club, and I haven’t for a very long time. 

Andy: I’d like to feel as a future, because at the minute, we’re about to embark on another season. From the last couple of podcasts, we’ve got sufficient finances to keep us going probably till the turn of the year, but then it starts to get ugly again, and possibly the transfer window in January will be needed to keep the finances going. 

Andy: In other words, we’ll probably have to sell in January, assuming we get that far. I just want to know where the future is, and we keep going over this, and rightly so, because it’s hugely important. 

George: See you, cheer. 

Andy: Yeah, but until this ownership thing is resolved, and until all the, as many of the debts can be repaid and cleared off the books, so that we can start to operate purely as a football club, rather than as a, you know, a debt machine for various companies, we’re going nowhere. 

George: 100% empty. 

Andy: And that’s, you know, I mean, you’ve said it on an ad nauseam, it’s the hope that kills, but at the minute, you know, I mean, Paul said it before, we need to get back to just concentrating on football, because the longer we concentrate or devote time to this, to the finances and whatnot, it just becomes, well, depressing. 

Andy: And that’s what turns you off the game then, because it’s all tied up with what we’ve been talking about, you know, different sets of rules that are allegedly different sets of rules, other clubs, you know, bending rules and selling things to themselves under a different name. 

And it just makes you feel dirty or unclean, not dirty, but tainted. And that’s not what the game should be about. You know, it used to be called a beautiful game. It’s the tainted game now. 

Paul: OK, given that it’s the last podcast before the beginning of the season, I’m sorry, I should have asked you this earlier. Oh, prediction time. Predictions, I put mine in the national press today, so mine are already out there. 

George: What was the question? Top four, bottom three. 

Andy: Well, I’m going to go back to yesteryear with my predictions when everybody used to go into the start of the season with genuine hopes, Ipswich the champions. 

Paul: So a repeat of 1961. 

Andy: Yeah, Everton for runners -up. Liverpool to get relegated, along with United in 16. 

George: Oh yeah, come on. I like that. I’ve got nothing to add to that. I don’t think that can be beaten, can it? No, no, that sounds perfect to me. Sounds like a great season. 

Andy: I’ll tell you what, there’d be a lot of happy fans around the country. 

George: Terrible, but it’s true. 

Andy: Yeah. I was perhaps being a tad facetious there. I’m going to take Arsenal for Champions. I suppose you’ve got to include City in the top four. Regrettably Liverpool. 

George: Thank you. 

Andy: I’ve got my doubts about Villa, to be honest. I’m not sure he’s going to be number four, but the top three are probably Arsenal City, Liverpool. Relegated. I mean, on the evidence of the last few years, the teams that come up tend to go back down, don’t they? 

So I hope that’s not the case, really. I’m not quite like it to stay up. Nothing against Ipswich, except it’s a long way to go. There’s no motorway. Well, I’ll just stick with that prediction for the top three. 

George: What about where we finish? 

Andy: 14. 

George: Right. Okay. I don’t even want to think about predicting who’s going to end up at the top of it because it’s processional and depresses me. I don’t know enough about the teams and, you know, how we’re doing and everything to know who’s going to be bottom. 

And when are we going to finish? Depends how we start. Depends how much confidence he can, if he gets lucky and we don’t get injuries at full back, for instance, because Nathan Patterson’s a long way away, isn’t he? 

And anyway, we get the feeling Dyche doesn’t quite trust him. But I think if we can get off to a good start, then, you know, it would be fun to watch the team play confidently. As regards the rest of it, it’s just, you know, it’s an insult to your intelligence, really, because it’s bound to be the richest clubs. 

And I’m sick to death of it. Wish it wasn’t. Wish it was Wolves. You know what I mean, Andy. 

Andy: And I know what you mean. 

Paul: enough. I think I had this, I said, from a positive point of view, I thought we might finish 10th. But more realistically, I think we will finish 15th. And I think the only surprise that I had was that for some reason, I must have done this about three o ‘clock in the morning, I think. 

I said Fulham might get relegated, but to do so by the number of people who contacted me and said, I may have got that one wrong, but we will wait and see. Yeah, we have to wait and see. Yeah. Okay, gents, let’s say, should we, should we draw it to a close there? 

Another interesting discussion, an open, honest discussion, I think. And all we can do is look forward to the new season. Everybody starts on the same number of points. 

Andy: Yeah. 

Paul: Unless we lose any points in the next week. 

Andy: Yo, let’s not go left. 

George: But let’s just go to one other place for you. Give us your predictions on Branthwaite, are we going to keep him? 

Paul: No, I still think he goes, but… 

George: goes in this window. Yeah. Right. 

Andy: I hope you’re wrong, Bro. 

George: I can’t keep seeing any of that story. 

Andy: I really, really hope you’re wrong on that. I’ll put it like this, I’d be bitterly disappointed if Jarred Branthwaite is sold and he’s sold cheap and he’s sold cheap to someone in the Premier League. If he goes to Real Madrid for 90 million, then fair enough. 

But if he goes to, if he goes to, I’m not even gonna go there. You know precisely what was this. 

George: Very funny, Andy. Sorry, Paul. No, go on, George. I was only going to add my girlish thing that whoever he goes to can have Allgate as well for nothing. Because the real nightmare for me would be that we do have to sell Brantley. 

That seems pretty, you know, he asked me to put a bet on it. I would put a bet on it. But the notion that he might ever be replaced, you know, because of circumstances with somebody, it’s not fair. Allgate might be listening to this. 

Have a good career, son. I’m going downstairs to play with my wife and be nicer than this. Behave better than this. Fair enough. 

Paul: Well, we’ve got through another close season and we will be talking after the first game of the season next week when it all becomes real again. 

George: Is it three o ‘clock on Saturday? Yeah, right. Is everybody kicking off at three o ‘clock, like they do on the last day of the season? 

Andy: No, these games on Sunday and Monday, I think. 

George: milk that cow. 

Paul: Indeed. All right, guys, thanks so much. Thank you to everybody for listening. And yeah, we look forward to getting back into the real stuff next week. Yeah, yeah, good stuff. Cheers. Thank you.