Paul: Good morning, good afternoon or good evening, depending on where in the world you are and what time of the day you’re listening to this episode of Talking the Blues, a time to say goodbye episode of Talking the Blues, not referring to either George, Andy or myself or indeed any of our audience, but referring to probably the two main players in Everton’s current state. 

George and Andy, not both of you, of course, but how are you?

George & Andy:  All right, not bad, fine. 

Paul: Good. Well, let’s get straight into it because I see quite a lot of positive comments about yesterday’s performance and not for a second denying the amount of effort and indeed application that went into yesterday’s performance, given what clearly the players’ instructions were. 

But I feel that probably as this conversation goes on, I may be at odds with many people who actually celebrate possibly too strong a word but enthused about yesterday’s performance. So before I add my bit to say, George and Andy, how did you feel about yesterday? 

George: Go ahead, Andy, because you saw the whole. game I only saw half of it.

Andy: Okay all right so I’m not going to say I was enthused I’m not going to say I was ecstatic but what I would say is we know that Sean Dyche is not the most adventurous manager when it comes to trying to take the game by the scruff of the neck he clearly felt that his best option yesterday was to try and frustrate stifle and restrict Arsenal with all the weapons that they’ve got offensively so he set the he set the team up in what we came to expect a 4-5-1 with DCL playing the lone role up front until he was replaced by Amanda Broja we were never going to win the game let’s make no bones about that. 

Everton Football Club were in no way were we going to win that game yesterday. However, the object of his, the object of Dyche for me yesterday was not to lose and to that end he got it absolutely bang on the money. 

George: Bang on the money. Now we don’t like his style of play you know we don’t play expansive attacking football the way that many of us have been weaned on over the years or over the decades but yesterday was about playing an effective brand of football bearing in mind we’re the awaits team there’s no obligation on us to entertain the six most of the 60,000 crowd at the Emirates yesterday were there to watch Arsenal not to watch Everton. 

Andy: The 3,000 or so that Evertonians that were there were probably all very pleased not I wouldn’t say deliriously happy but very pleased with the result we got a massive point we’re the only team so far this season to have stopped Arsenal scoring at the Emirates so Dyche can take a can put a feather in his cap for that one over all the other managers who’ve been to the Emirates and had a goal put in there now and the team played whatever game however whatever he told them to do before the game or whatever they decided to do they did it admirably every single one of them put a shift in.

 I thought Ashley Young again, you know I’m I mean in washings of humble pie where Ashley Young was concerned, he had an excellent game yesterday, an excellent game.

 Mykolenko had to all intensive purposes,he had Saka arguably, you know the best right-winger in the country at the moment and so certainly the best English right winger in the country at the moment, in his pocket. I think I can only remember a couple of times when Saka actually got away from Mykolenko and there was always someone there to cover. And that was the impressive thing yesterday about the Everton performance, is everybody was providing cover for somebody else. 

I tried to think what the mileage stats were, because obviously we were on the back foot nearly all the game. The possession stats were ugly as we knew they probably would be. But the amount of coverings that the players did for one another was just outstanding. 

And then at the back, you know, you’ve got Pickford who had another terrific game, made some excellent saves. The one from Saka low down early on in the second half was a terrific stop. And he commanded his area well. 

George: You know, I think I put it in a text message, you know, he looks to be enjoying him playing football or playing, playing his role in a team, you know, that nobody, nobody, nobody involved in football gave Everton a prayer going to the Emirates yesterday. 

No one in football, not even none of us. We don’t, you know, we’re all hoping for a point where we’re all hoping for a miraculous win. But, you know, you know, we had to put our hand on our heart and say, what’s going to happen? 

We’re going to get trolleyed. And we didn’t because the team worked perfectly. They all worked hard for one another. They all put a shift in. Nobody should, any responsibility whatsoever. It was, if you like, an archetypal Sean Dyche, let’s go away and come on with the point that we’re going with. 

And to that end, it was, I wouldn’t say nigh on perfect, but it didn’t get anything wrong yesterday. And there’s been plenty of other times this season when we’ve gone away and we’ve been spanked, and we’ve been made to look worse than average. 

And we’ve looked like we weren’t interested. And in some cases, players have looked like they didn’t care. None of that criticism could be leveled at that Everton side yesterday. They all wanted, they all wanted what they wanted to get that point. 

Andy: They fully deserve the clean sheet. And they fully deserve to have Arsenal fans whining and whinging about absolutely everything as they always do. And especially the no mark in the crowd who was standing behind Ashley Young taking a throw in and Ashley Young understandably is trying to eek a few seconds off the clock. 

And there’s a no mark in the crowd standing there raising his arm and pointing to his wrist about the time wasting. And I thought to myself, you hard faced bastard, there is no worse team in this football league than Arsenal, the time wasted. 

They’ve almost made it into an art form, and they don’t like having it. done that to them and they would have picked up three yellow cards yesterday and they were all for time wasting you know because their players whinged and whined like stuck pigs and i thoroughly enjoyed it over to you bro you saw the first half of this yeah i did see the first after that um i’ve not got a lot to add to that i mean uh i suppose you know um if one of Ødegaard‘s efforts have gone in then what would ever have done it didn’t and everything you say is true uh about you know the the intention of the team which frankly i was embarrassed by um but you know he thinks it’s a poor squad so he sets it up like a poor squad and it over performed like yesterday and great like you um you know so bits from the point you don’t want to go there and get beat. 

George: What worries me of course is that next week we play Chelsea who I think have got better attacking players than Arsenal have and will be at home and he’ll play exactly the same way. That’s where we get the hump with Sean Dyche is that he won’t be trying to be different at Goodison. 

Andy: You’re absolutely right though, he probably will set the team up exactly the same when at home we should be looking to take some initiative. But in terms of yesterday where we’re away against the team who’s second in the table, who are flying in all the competitions they’re in, then I think we have to give them all the credit for that. 

Like I said, nobody expected us to get anything out of that yesterday other than a good hiding. And we didn’t get it because whatever he said to them and whatever they took in their mindset onto the field worked really, really well. 

George: Yeah, do you like to watch a rerun of it?

Andy:  No, probably not. Like I said, it’s not the kind of football we want to watch but needs must at the moment and in terms of needs must, it did. Well that’s exactly what you’re saying and I can’t argue with it. 

We’re in a very pragmatic situation and pragmatically they did rather than well yesterday. 

George: You watched all of it Paul, let’s say your version of it as well.

Paul:  First of all, Andy, you put forward a strong defense of Dyche, at least in the context of yesterday’s game. 

Andy: Just in the context of yesterday, that’s the important bit.

Paul:  Yeah, maybe because I know we’re just coming to the end of Dyche’s reign but I’m just sick to death of it. It’s just, it’s anti football, it’s dated. 

He hasn’t changed his tune since the early Burnley days when he talked about defending the V. And he saw it again yesterday, every man behind the ball. And, and frankly, as we have been on so many occasions, under Dyche and actually before Dyche, but obviously with Dyche specifically were kept in the game by the goalkeeper. 

Now you might argue that’s what you might argue that’s what the goalkeeper is for. And obviously with Pickford, we’ve probably, I think, we’ve got the best goalkeeper in the league. And he showed it again yesterday, especially that save low to his left. 

But we had absolutely no plan in the event that Arsenal scored and I know you can all argue and everybody will argue but they didn’t and they didn’t because of the way that we set up and they didn’t because of the way the goalkeeper played. 

I get that but it’s not football I want to watch. It’s not. I took no pleasure in the fact that we just came away with a point and I’m just sick to death of it and I can’t wait to not have to see that again. 

Andy: I don’t think, forgive me for that saying this Paul, but I don’t think you can say that you weren’t happy that we got a point. Well I know that the nature in which we got the point might not appeal but it just left me feeling hollow and a bit cheated and a bit sort of embarrassed. 

And again and there’ll be lots of people listening to this who say oh come on you’ve I do get totally where we are but it doesn’t mean to say I can I have to derive any pleasure as of what we did yesterday because frankly I didn’t. 

I can play the old romantic and say it’s not the club that I grew up supporting and I know you two both can do that equally well and you know the great teams of the 60s that I sort of just about missed but no I just just did absolutely nothing for me and Dyche’s words just ring completely hollow because, you know, I’ve listened, I’ve been doing research for other things, but you know, I’ve been listening to what Dyche has said on other podcasts and other publications. And well, I’ve got an amazing one now, nailing my colour fully to the mast. 

George: I just think in terms of the bigger picture, Paul, I don’t disagree with you. He doesn’t coach or manage the style of football we want. He doesn’t seem to offer any great incentive or encouragement for the players to try and be expansive and play with gay abandon. 

Andy: But in terms of the old cliche, take each game as it comes, he took that game as it came and got a result. Now, would we want to watch that week in week out? Certainly not. We will. Well, yeah, I know. 

And to me, I’m not defending him, but it’s not. It’s not purely. Well, it is purely down to him, but it’s not, you know. All he’s done is carry on the legacy that he’s inherited from previous managers who bought the crap out of us. 

Paul: To a degree, on that particular point, Andy, yes, I agree. But, you know, the Match of the Day commentator, and I watched the MOTD this morning, you know, there was a close up of Dyche in the middle of the game. 

And, you know, this is the type of game that Sean, I think they said some long lines of this, the type of game that’s made for Sean Dyche. And I’m thinking, what? You take a team that everybody else says has got no chance of winning the game. 

And you somehow defy the odds of the mighty arsenal, scoring a goal against you in the full knowledge that if they did score a goal against you, you had absolutely no plan or no idea as to how you are ever going to get back into the game. 

Andy: No, I get that. I get that totally. I do. I mean, I’m trying not to sound like I’m coming on both sides of the fence here. No, it’s great that we can disagree because I’m sure there’ll be lots of people that disagree with my particular point, but I’m just, you know, I’m waiting till I get talking about this area a bit later on. 

Paul: I’m just saying it as I see it from my perspective, which is what we all almost do and it’s what the three of us do and thank goodness that those perspectives are different.

Andy: Because you well like i said all all i’m just trying to in the bigger picture in the grand scheme of things i’m a hundred percent with you hundred percent with you you know he doesn’t coach the type of football we want to see he doesn’t coach the type of football that’s enjoyable to watch um there’s no argument on that all all i’m saying is that on the day given given the venue the opposition our record there um he set the team up in such a way as we weren’t going to lose the game um we were never going to win the game because you’re absolutely right at Arsenal scored you know there was no way in the memory of man you could see an equalizer coming so the object is don’t concede we don’t concede we don’t have to chase the game and to that end you know rightly or wrongly, whatever he did and whatever he said, he got spot on. That’s all I’m saying is that on a game by game, take each game as it comes. In this instance, I mean, he’s got many others wrong. We know that. 

He’s got plenty of substitutions wrong in the past. He’s, you know, his negativity and lack of willingness to attack has bitten us in the ass all over the place. You know, spankings at Spurs, getting trolleyed at Old Trafford. 

You know, the list is almost endless. But in terms of the application, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, for yesterday. And yes, it wasn’t aesthetically pleasing to the eye in terms of the type of football we want to see, but we went there, we went for a point. 

We got a point, job done, in effect. What sort of logical approach is it that you go into a game against a team that, as you’ve rightly identified, you know, had not failed to score at home this season. 

Paul: And I think it had only drawn what one game previously had, haven’t they? That with a side that, you know, for example, when we played Tottenham, or I got completely destroyed and should have been much more than 4-0, Tottenham sort of let us off a bit. 

And then against a very bad United team, we lost 4-0 away. And okay, that didn’t happen yesterday. But what sort of logic, what sort of logical thinking goes into the idea that we’ll do what we did in those two games and actually we’ll get a better result out of it. 

Now, yes, I know everybody can point to the fact that we did get a much better result out of it. But I just wonder about the logic of it. And, you know, again, I know it was quite strong with the words that I used before about Sean Dije, but he talked… 

about improvement, both of himself and improvement of other individual players. And he talks a lot when he gets into the subject about making the most of the resources that are available to him, because obviously, when he was a family, he didn’t have a huge amount of resources available to him. 

And clearly, at Everton, he’s not had a huge amount of resources available to him. But I will make the case that he picks up the fact that he believes he doesn’t have a lot of resources. He picks up the fact that he thinks that we’re not capable of playing anything more than ultra defensive football. 

And he picks up the fact that, you know, this is his style of football. And I just well, without repeating myself, it just there isn’t a style because there isn’t any football. Hmm. how can you how can you have a football style if you’re if the sole objective or not sole objective but one of the principal objectives is actually not to have possession of the football well when you do have possession of the football the objective then is to get rid of it as quickly as possible hopefully to get rid of it in an area of the pitch that can’t do you any damage because that’s that’s that type of football that we’re playing.

I’m well yeah I’m I can’t argue that but I wouldn’t argue it I just like I said for me I just think it was um when we I mean we’ve said it you know is is time whatever in football club is probably fast coming to a to a conclusion um and an end.

I mean we don’t know if we’re certain but we are assuming that once the takeover is completed that that the new owners will make a fairly fairly quick change in that direction we’re assuming that um lots of people are hoping it and one or two are actually fearing it um really well I think, I think, there is there is some fear that better the devil you know than the devil you don’t which baffles me because we’re all sick and tired.

We’ve had we’ve had far too many years of watching dross and we are watching dross in the big picture throughout the season we’re watching largely well almost complete nut and rubbish there’s been me it’s been the odd flashing the pan um this season you know like the Wolves game and it’s which away but by and large we are watching rubbish and  I’m not denying that at all. 

George: But you know, Paul you make terrific points about a complete lack of style and everything and the way he handles himself in the press conferences by trooping out this mantra about improvement and whatnot. 

Andy: I don’t think that’s actually helped by the sections of the media who pose the questions because he’s answering questions. And when someone sticks a microphone up your nose and says, Sean, you’ve gone five games in the last eight without conceding, you must be delighted. 

What’s he supposed to say? No, I’m sick of it. I think we should concede more. He’s obviously going to focus on the fact that they’re praising him or they’re feeding him a maggot that he can jump on. 

We haven’t conceded in five of the last eight games. The fact that we haven’t scored very many in the last five out of the last eight games. doesn’t seem to register with the media. It’s about time that the media personnel, whether it’s TV, papers, radio or whatever, actually started to ask some more serious pointed questions that would demand a thinking man’s answer, rather than the ability for him to just fall back on soundbite answers. 

Because that’s all we’re getting, soundbite answers. You know, they have these guys and they’ve already got their answers pre-planned. They’re each individual answer. If you’ve not asked a sensible question, why give a sensible answer? 

You know, if someone said to him, Sean, your team hasn’t scored in the last three months, what are you doing about it? And he starts dribbling about, well, it’s a lack of resources and whatnot. Then someone can jump on and say, hang on, we’ve heard all that crap before. 

What are you doing about lack of goals? What are you doing in training? What are you doing in coaching? But they won’t. They just, you know, it’s baffled by the laziness of the media in all areas to actually ask a sharp pointed question that demands a sharp pointed answer, instead of allowing him to fall back into his safety net. 

George: You’ll be asking that question forever, Andrew. The British media could not be more cynical. They’re feeding a monster that will read whatever they put out. So there’s no impetus, I don’t think, no professional impetus to be penetrative at all. 

If only football were taken that seriously, as though, you know, I kind of agree with your main point here.

Paul:  I would love to ask the following, if you defended like you attacked, if you’re a goalkeeper, who kept goal like you attack. 

If you took free kicks like you attack, if you took throw-ins like you attack, what would you do about it? Because in each of those areas, you’ve got specialists within your training team or within the management team that look after those areas. 

Because they’re obviously areas that are very important to you, very important to you, Sean Dyche. Just what is it about the attacking aspects of the game that you don’t attach the same importance to? 

George: There you go. That’s the kind of questions, surely, the mainstream media, the local media, the radio, whoever, all of them, every single one of them should be asking a question, not giving them the easy question to offer an easy answer. 

You must be delighted with another clean sheet. Of course, he’s delighted with another clean sheet. only an idiot wouldn’t be so it’s a pointless needless aimless inane question shawn you haven’t scored again what are you doing about it give him something he’s got to answer you two are in the wrong position well to me it’s not to me it’s not rocket science i don’t i just don’t get you know it’s like the pregame press conferences you don’t you don’t have to watch them you can script that yourself because you know what’s going to get asked meaningless questions inevitably about who’s injured who can’t play you know how are you going to set the team up we all know he’s going to set the team up four five one move on ask a sensible question.

Paul: Those press conferences are there because there’s a contractual obligations and there we are and a contractual obligation by the media people to turn up which is you know why there’s such a limited number of questions that are asked in the open section i understand there’s more detailed questions asked in the closed section for the so-called print media um do we ever do we ever read anything in the print media that’s ultimately new to be honest um no it what’s put in the media is from my perspective is completely irrelevant i’m looking at this uh in modern terms as a consumer yeah and as somebody just got nonsense uh a huge interest in seeing a better ever seen football club and uh uh when something like yesterday happens and dutch gets applauded both from the media and from a large percentage of the fan base. 

And I don’t mind saying this. When we’ve got new owners just around the corner, it concerns me a little bit, because I don’t want to see Dyche’s case supported in any way. Now that’s not to say I’m going to be unfair to him if he suddenly produces a stunning attacking display and we beat Arsenal 3-1 or something of that nature. 

Because then he would be worthy of that praise. But I don’t think that that performance yesterday, or the way that we set up the tactical process that we went through beforehand, the thought process that went through beforehand, is worthy of much comment other than the fact that we gained a point. 

And you know, Mr. Dyche’s time is up. Not only is your time up, I think, but I think your time up is up in top league football. Well, that’s neither in or there. Well, yes and no, it is neither in or there in the context of Everton, but it is relevant if we think, and I don’t think this is the case, but if, for example, the future owners felt that he was the appropriate person to see us through the rest of the season because the objective is just to get to the end of the season and have 36, 37, 38 points, whatever we need. That would be depressing. I’m sure we’re all hoping that’s not going to be the case, aren’t we? Yeah, very much so. I stress I don’t think it will be the case, but I also, you know, I genuinely don’t want to see anything that would support his continued employment at the club. 

Or whether you said previously, George, about certain aspects of his character and the way that he behaved, particularly last season in very difficult circumstances. I get all of that. And as we’ve talked about previously, there’s gratitude for some of the things that he’s done, namely keeping us in division, but nothing more than that. 

Well, I would give up. No, I’m just going to repeat myself. 

George: So am I. Well, I was going to develop this on too, but just answer this question first, because I’m intrigued because I know you know more about this than I do. 

When you say, you know, you’re playing music at the start that says bye-bye everybody. What is the time scale here now, please, on the immediate future of Everton Football Club? When do you expect these new owners to be there? 

Paul: I think it will be announced in the next few days.

George: Before the Chelsea match? 

Paul:Yeah, before the Chelsea match. That was, and I’ll talk about Moshiri in a few minutes, but that was Moshiri’s last game as owner of Everton Football Club. 

George: What a sweet say. Could you just say that again, please? 

Paul: That was Moshiri’s last game as owner of Everton’s Football Club. 

George: Oh, that sounded really good. All the formalities may not be in place before the Chelsea game, but it will be in the public domain that everything is agreed. 

Paul: We’ve got Premier League approval, financing is there, Moshiri is in agreement, albeit we don’t have to go through it. a process where the shareholders agree, but that will be done. And yeah, this is the end of the Moshiri era. 

George: Well, that was worth having a podcast more. Delete the previous 20 minutes. Yeah, start with the good news. I think, I think, as in the previous 20 minutes, it was worthwhile discussion because, you know, we’re giving different opinions, and we’re being honest. 

Paul: And the three of us are providing good support for our position, which is, I think, isn’t that the art of good conversation, that you’re able to present a position and support it with the evidence as you see it, and then somebody else to counter it, which I think is what should happen on a podcast. 

But, yeah. And for me, one of the great ironies is, of course, that if it is the case, and I think it will be the case, that Moshiri’s last game in control of Everton Football Club was actually at Arsenal, the club that would never see it on as a board director. 

George: I wonder who was there yesterday. From the club. No, I wonder if Moshirii was at the Emirates yesterday.

Paul: No, he wasn’t, no, no. 

George: He wasn’t? No. We’ll never see the sound of him again. No, no, let’s move on. 

Paul: Let’s, you know, get the new owners in, start a fresh, clean sheet. It’s at some point in the future, and of course, the focus now will have to be on the youth. new ownership. But on some point in the future, at some point in the future, and it will it will be revealed, it will be fascinating to see the role that David Dean played in all of this, not only at Everton, bringing Moshiri into Everton, but also David Dean’s role in Moshiri’s involvement in Arsenal in the first instance. 

Well, you’re going to have to tune into another edition of Talking the Blues to hear more about that in the future. But no, I mean, in one sense, it’s a sort of, you know, it’s a fitting place for Moshiri’s reign to finish, and probably a fitting performance as well. 

Paul: Can any of you remember, and anybody listening before Jordan and the answer? What was Everton’s first game under Moshiri’s control? 

Andy: No. Under his control, wasn’t it the Chelsea Cup tie? Goodison, we beat Chelsea and Lukaku scored. 

Yes. Yeah, Lukaku scored those two fantastic goals at the Gwladys Street. One left, one right, one left, one right full. Yeah, maybe I should have. So the first Premier League game. All right. 

Paul: Aston Villa away.

George:  Was it really? Yeah, and that was when all the Everton fans and there wasn’t a full house there by any stretch of the imagination, but all the Everton fans were singing were expletive, something rich. 

Andy: Not anymore. Yeah, I guess it was. 

Paul: Do you remember what the score was?

George: No, go on. Scared me. We won three, one. I was there. Pienaar scored?. 

Paul: I didn’t write down the scorers. But the other question I was going to ask you about before we get on to the Moshiri question. 

Funes Mori scored, I remember that. And Lukaku scored the third. I don’t know if Pienaar. No, he wasn’t playing. 

George: It’s the game I think it was, Pienaar got the first.

Paul: No, no, so Pienaar wasn’t in the team. 

No, Pienaar, he’d long left.

George:  From where? Oh yes, who named the one player on the pitch for the first Moshiri game? This is a good quiz. 

Andy: What was the last Moshiri game? Hang on, hang on. Just read the question again, Paul. Name the one player… Now this could be a trick question, bro. Let’s hear the question again. Name the one player who was on the pitch for the first Moshiri game, the league game, the aforementioned Aston Villa versus Everton game, and the last game, which was the Arsenal game. 

Andy: I’m buzzing in here. 

Paul:Go on. 

Andy: Idrissa Gana Gueye. Yeah, absolutely. He played for Villa against us. He did. He played for the Villa against us. That’s why I wanted to click. I wanted to see if Paul specified when he played for Everton in both games. 

George: Out of the starting 11 for Everton, there’s only one player and start the club. Ooh, Jamis. Yeah, Jamis, yeah. I’m on a roll here. You are. Could be better overall. I’ve got a quiz question for you, Andy. 

Which… I’ve got a quiz question. Did we have a director of football when Marco Silva arrived? When he arrived? Yeah. Whose decision was it to hire Marco Silva? I’ll say Moshiri and then Brand’s arrived subsequently. 

Is that right? It wasn’t… That was the root of my question. It’s not a quiz question so much as… No. No, not a bit of prize, then. Yeah, a Christmas card, Andy. I’m gutted. This is thanks to Everton. 

Paul: There’s no rewards. There’s no prizes yet. It wasn’t Brand’s decision to bring Silva in, was it? Is my question. It’s not a quiz because I don’t know the answer. I just thought of it today when I was… 

George: I was always under the impression that Brand’s was in favour of Marco Silva, even though he didn’t appoint him, because I’m sure he arrived subsequent to Marco Silva rising, but he didn’t have a problem with it. 

Paul: That was always my understanding, right, though, wrongly. He did, and if I’ve got this wrong, that’s because he’s on the podcast. But if you remember the circumstances under which Marco Silva arrived… 

to Everton, and the fuss that was created as a result of it, it was all down to Moshiri’s particular obsession at the time, that Marco Silva was the next great thing. And the manner in which we went about it was, you know, less than professional, if you recall. 

George: That’s one because it was the Watford fans who got really irritated by it, didn’t they?

Paul:  Well, basically, we tapped him up. And we were subsequently found guilty of that. But Marco Silva came to Everton because Moshiri thought it was a good idea. 

And, you know, I suppose you could argue in the long term, he was a good judge of a manager in that sense. Well, this is where I was going to go. This is the train of thought I was thinking about. you know, what the three kings will do and your thing last week about bringing back Moyes and I don’t agree with that. 

George: And I was also thinking in terms of the Arsenal game yesterday that you said, bring back Moyes because it’s stability and something we recognize. Actually, I will defend Dyche again, and I’ll be very, very happy if he’s replaced very quickly. 

But I will defend him again to say, actually, we are stable. We’re not going to get relegated again this year, because if he were to continue in the job, there’ll be loads of nil-nils, and we will get the points that’s necessary. 

I’m hoping that that is not held onto. But as I began to think about that, I suddenly thought, well, what would I want the Friedkins to do? And the answer to that is I’d like them to bring Marcel Brands back and say to Marcel Brands, all the things that stopped you doing the job when you were here are now removed. 

They’ve all gone. All the control freaks who were frightened to death of you are all either in the ground or gone. Rest in peace and all that stuff. And personally, I would bring him back. And the further corollary to that would be that I think Moyes is a bad idea because I think he’s a sophisticated version of Dyche. 

And I think what Everton fans, certainly this Everton fan, wants is a statement from these new owners that we are going to try and play a different kind of football. I don’t think that Moyes is that man. 

Paul: Now, he may get a gig and, of course, we’re all fond of him, but I don’t think he’s ever shown any great attacking flair. And I don’t think he’s going to start now. I would want somebody with a clean sheet and an attacking mentality to come and kick some ass in our club. 

I know I’m in danger of arguing against myself here, but in terms of advancement, but Moyes’ teams played some good football towards the end of the 2007 to 2010, 11 period. No? I think, from my perspective, Moyes made us difficult to play against. 

Paul: At times we did play some really good football under Moyes. He did make us the best of the rest. There was no doubt about that, as it was at the time, the top four, was his spits in the corner. And we were five or six. 

Andy: There was no doubt about that. The problem with the Moyes tenure was his record against that top four. It was abysmal. And I think we need a manager who’s not going to be, if I can use the word, afraid of playing the bigger clubs, if the bigger clubs are the right attitude, certain clubs, let’s put it that way. 

You know, the knife to a gunfight nonsense. I think that is a legacy that he would find incredibly difficult to overcome. Don’t do all those statements that, it led to Moshiri coming out with nonsense, like an expected loss. 

George: It was that mentality. I record against, you know, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, United at the time, was dreadful. The one thing he did have, he had the Indian sign over city, particularly when Mancini was at Man City. 

But for me, I took on board last week that what you’d said about, he would give us, bring stability. He would be the bridge from Goodison to Bramley Moore, et cetera, et cetera. You know, he would probably possibly work well if Seamus were to step into a player assistant coaching role. 

I take all that on board and appreciate the thinking behind it. Well, I can’t get beyond the fact that his record against certain clubs was dreadful and was never going to improve. And that to me was the biggest no-no against a club. 

It’s not, it’s not for me to say whether he’ll, whether he’ll return or not, but that would be the massive gray area for me. You know, could, could he, could he shed that negativity, if you like, and I don’t think he could. 

George: Paul, given that you’re sort of announcing to me and Andy and the world that that was at Moshiri, his last game in charge, you obviously know more about what’s going on at Goodison than we do. And great, who is going to get the guy at his job, in your opinion? 

Paul: Well, I generally don’t know. I know Moyes is in with a shout. Right. Because Moyes has been contacted, but I can’t say. for sure, it’s going to be his gig, because I don’t know who else has been contacted. 

I don’t know what their responses have been either. I mean, it might be that Moyes doesn’t want it, although he sort of indicated to a degree in the media, his keenness to take the position if it was available. 

George: So I don’t blame him. I suppose the one question I would ask, prior to your question directed to Andy, would be, do you think Moyes is the better manager today than he was when he left Everton? That’s a good question. 

I think he should never have left Everton, but I’m sure he had the same handcuffs from above that saw off brands. Don’t forget he was lured away by Ferguson to Old Trafford. Yeah, yeah. And much as we hate them, you know, you’d have to be perfectly honest that if we were in football and someone offered you the chance to go there, you know, your gut reaction would never end. 

Lukaku, Rooney, how long do you want the list to be? Exactly. Before I even go to the drops that they sold us. That’s the past, it’s done. I’m kind of with you, not for the same reasons, but I want this board of directors to make a statement about the future of Everton. 

Andy: I don’t believe David Moyes is that. I think he’s part of the past. You want this new board of directors, whomever the new board of directors may be. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That’s fair enough. Yeah. 

I mean, the problem is right now of the unemployed available managers I mean, all right, I haven’t spent any time looking at which football managers are currently unemployed and available and who would, who would really set the pulses racing. 

George: Well, I sincerely hope that we can see that we have done that research. I really do. I’ve never heard of Arne Slot. And if you said what’s Arne Slotlot, I would have said the machine. Well, yeah, no, exactly. 

But that’s the thing, you know, I don’t like sighting them across the park, but they, the moment that Klopp indicated that he was knocking it on the head, they went to work and they would probably already done that work, as we’ve suggested previously in the past. 

Any decent organization has got future planning already in place. You know, you’ve already got a short list of coaches lined up. Should the need arise, you’ve already got a short list of. you know, doctors or whatever, doesn’t matter whatever position there is available within the club, somebody should have a list of people ready to approach or to step up and step into the role seamlessly. 

Andy: And that’s what’s happened across the park at Anfield. Klopp, who was revered by the Kopites, said he was knocking on end of the season. They’ve gone out and replaced him with Annie Slott. Nobody’s talking about Jurgen Klopp now, because Slott has slotted in almost nigh on perfectly. 

And that’s, you know, you’ve got to give Liverpool Football Club credit for that. That is great forward thinking on their behalf, obviously aided and abetted by Klopp giving them oodles of notice that he was going to walk. 

But Everton gave oodles, were given oodles of notice by by David Moyes. And we went with Roberto Silva, Roberto Martinez, which initially, you know, season one was was great fun. We played some lovely football with a good, he inherited a good solid team from Moyes. 

And he gave them a lot more freedom to go and play. But ultimately, his lack of seriousness where defending was concerned, you know, season two was a market drop off season three was dreadful. 

You know, I sincerely hope that the Friedkins have looked at every single available, currently out of work, guiding his time manager, so that they are going to bring, you know, bring in the right, you know, someone with a completely different mindset. 

Thoughts on putting your philosophy on football and then Sean Dyche, Benitez and Lampard and Allardyce and even Koeman, you know, we desperately need somebody who’s going to excite us and get the team playing an exciting brand of football. 

Andy: No, neither do I. Neither do I, you know, but I’m not sure, I’m not sure who it would be. I mean, you know, the name, you know, the immediate names that get pooped out in the media, again, because, you know, maybe they’re being a bit lazy with it, Graham Potter, Southgate, you know, I’m sure Gary O’Neal will be the next one to be pooped out now that he’s been sacked by wolves, you know, but God only knows, 

but we just need somebody who’s going to… set the pulses racing and none of those guys would set my race my pulses racing. They probably set me blood pressure, but it wouldn’t set me pulses racing. 

Paul: But I suppose the only thing I can say is that the Freakins have and currently are deploying, you know, executive search, or what would you call them, executive search consultants.

George: I’ve got one more question for you, Paul. 

Do you believe there will be a different coach in the dugout for the Chelsea match? Do you believe that?

Paul:  I mean, no, not for the Chelsea match. He will play at Goodison against Chelsea as we played yesterday. 

More than likely, I would suspect. Yeah. And would you blame him? I think you’re to your better side than Arsenal. I think they’ve got more dangerous attacking players. They’ve got better ideas, a better energy at the minute. 

If he does play like that, I’m not going to, you know, criticize him in advance. I don’t see what options he’s, what? No, let me be more specific. I don’t think he will think he’s got any options but to play like that. 

Paul: Well, okay, I’ll counter that with if I was sitting in the boot room with Sean or sitting in his local pub just outside of Nottingham. I would say to him, what realistic expectation do you have of us not conceding a goal against Chelsea whom George thinks is, and I agree with George, a better attacking threat than Arsenal? 

Right. So answer that question first. What realistic expectation do you have of not conceding a goal against a potentially rampant Chelsea? My answer would be less than I had yesterday. I think we will concede the goal. 

Okay. So then what is the plan B when we do concede the goal? Or is there a plan A that says actually the best way of us going about this game is actually scoring first? Can you see him going 4-4-2? 

George: Andy, I think this is going to be his last game. I would. Well, again, I’ve been… All right. Let’s look at a different one. Would Chelsea… be expecting Everton to play 4-4-2. Surely they’ll be expecting Everton to play more or less exactly as we did yesterday. 

They won’t give a rat ass what Everton are going to do. They won’t be thinking about Everton until they get on the bus. And that’s the kind of manager that we want then who’s not telling his players to bother about that. 

Just concentrate on what we do and how well we do it. 100 percent. Yeah. So if Chelsea are going to play us in respect in whatever way, they’re not going to bother about what formation resets up. So will Dyche think along in similar lines given that he’s at home. 

It’s the last game before Christmas. Surely he wants to send the fans home with a smile on their face. So what are the chances he’s going to say let’s go for it boys. DCL, Armando, you’re playing two up. 

We’re going 4-4-2. We’re going to throw the kitchen sink at Chelsea right from the kickoff. I think there’s more chance of juggling such. I think he should be saying let’s go 4-4-2 because his most successful times as a manager is when he played 4-4-2. 

Paul: He talks and has written about the fact that Ancelotti congratulated him on playing 4-4-2. And when Sean Deutsch asked him why he congratulated him on it, he said because that’s what I’ve played in all of my career as a manager, 4-4-2. 

So he identifies with him in terms of style, an approach to football. But Dyche seems to have forgotten that and gone with this ultra defensive, ultra cautious approach. which, you know, frankly, yes, a lot of players played well yesterday, except that totally. 

But pretty much without Pickford, we wouldn’t be in the Premier League now. 

George: Is Broja an ex-CLC player?

Andy:  Yeah, well, he’s on loan, isn’t he? So he can’t play. He can’t play. Oh, no. Yeah. So I was just going to say, I was just going to say, if we are going to consider the, well, if Date is considering 442, it would be DCL and Beto. 

George: Then I would advise him not to consider that. I would advise him to go and get another bus and park it and send everybody home with a point against Chelsea, fulfilling what I said a few weeks ago that this team will perform better against these alarming people we have to face in December. 

We’ve already, you know, seen off Liverpool till February. Arsenal are whining and licking their wounds. Chelsea next. Well, I suspect, you know, there’s a lot of, a lot of losers thinking, you know, along similar lines to you that Chelsea possibly more, much more of a goal scoring threat than even Arsenal are. 

So a point next Sunday would almost be acceptable, you know, the fact. Where that doesn’t bring to is we’re at home and we should be looking to take the initiative. Well, it comes back to the fundamental difference in the conversation of today’s Talking the Blues. 

If you said now we’ll get a point against Chelsea, probably all three of us will go, oh cool, great, excellent. Paul’s point would be, how are we going to get it? Yeah. You and I would go, I’ll tell you exactly how we’re going to get it, Paul. 

And he would go, well, I’m not going to watch it then. Yeah. And, you know, and we’re not in disagreement really about that, but that’s what this conversation has been about, the power state of where we are ambition wise at this point in our history. 

Paul: Yeah, I mean, I have to say, I wouldn’t be happy at all if we just got a point against Chelsea, but then that’s me. 

George: But you would if it was three all, Paul. The fact is, you know, damn well, it won’t be. 

Paul: Well, if we went out and did them again, but I got, you know, got a two all out of it, you know, it will be churlish not to be.

George:  Yeah, it’s the manner in which you get a point, isn’t it? Yeah, I don’t have a problem agreeing with Paul about the way we played yesterday. 

I was embarrassed. My whole argument is… The football, sorry, Paul, go on. 

Paul: No, no, sorry, my whole argument is if we go out with the sole ambition of getting a point. Yeah, then everything has everything has to go right in order to get that point, because you are already conceiving the upper hand to the to the opposition, you’re already saying that we’re prepared to seed, you know, the vast majority of possession, we’re, we’re prepared to commit to concede the vast areas of the pitch that we want, we want to operate in. And we’re relying upon either an individual goal scoring opportunity that results from a break, perhaps. 

But, you know, even yesterday, when we got the break, you know, to decorate should have done much better than they did. And all we’re relying upon, you know, a dead ball situation. 

George: That’s who we are, Paul, right now. 

Paul: Well, yeah. I mean, the real, the real realism of it all is that that is where we are. But that doesn’t mean it’s acceptable. No, I don’t think any of us accept it. And, you know, we’re only three, again, people say, oh, stop being negative. 

But, you know, we’re three points off a relegation spot. There’s only Southampton that scored less goals than us. Right. 

Andy: Yeah, yeah. No, no, I mean, I don’t want to listen to some of that Tony and going, oh, no, I’m really happy with the way we’re playing football. 

There can’t be. We’re buried at the bottom. We’re light years behind the neighbours across the park. It’s it’s it’s all horrible. And change has got to come. And, you know, well, we’re all in danger of repeating ourselves, but I don’t believe Moyes is the best idea. 

I think there’s probably another individual out there that would make the whole club and the whole football world go, oh, wow. What we need to find is the Jose Mourinho that first arrived at Chelsea. 

George: Oh, we did. We found Ancelotti. But, you know, it didn’t work, did it? Wrong, wrong time. Yeah. Well, no, but I mean, I mean, I’m, you know, it’s fanciful now, you know, and it’s a needle in a haystack job. 

But, you know, if we could find someone of the ilk of  Mourinho when he first arrived at Chelsea, who came in and just I mean, just energized everything about that club at the time. And well, I mean, he was the archetypal breath of fresh air, wasn’t he? 

Andy: Um, I know what he’s saying. a total maverick in the way he managed the game as well. He was prepared to make substitutions after 20 minutes, not leave it till 20 minutes to play. And then it’s a kitchen sink job. 

You know, completely different mindset about football. That’s the kind of manager that I personally yearn for. I mean, it’s, you know, it’s the romantic in me, I guess, I don’t know. I just, I just hope we don’t, I don’t, we don’t settle for another, if you like, a more advanced level of mediocrity than we’re currently getting. 

George: Quite. This is going to be a big week, isn’t it, Paul?

Paul:  It is going to be an extraordinary week, I think, in Everton’s history. Just, just before again, just the one point about the managers, I think those managers do exist. 

And obviously, you’ve got to find them. identify them and find them and encourage them to come to the club. But, you know, a few years ago, nobody had heard about Potter, nobody had heard about Franck. 

Nobody had heard about Kieran McKenna. Ipswich, you know, who’s played through three divisions. And plays, okay, they didn’t play well against us. When we won in October at their ground, we played an attractive form of football. 

Andy: Yep. So those managers exist. But yeah, how we find them as against somebody else finding them, and and then how we attract them to our club as against another club is down to the leadership of the club and the people that they themselves recruit. 

Paul: Yeah, yeah. And, you know, frankly, you know, I’ve been doing a lot of thinking. And, you know, you know, I’ve been doing some writing and stuff on Moshiri. I think back to that time when Lukaku was away with Belgium, and he was asked directly by somebody on camera, you know, whether he’d be signing a contract extension, Everton. 

And he just laughed. Yeah. No, we did, we’ve done the hard yards first of all, identifying Lukaku, and secondly, then not only bringing him in on loan and then getting him to sign, you know, a contract with us. 

And yet, only a few months after doing that, he’s laughing in our face because he realizes what a Pardon my language, a lot of shit show. He joined the Mickey Mouse Club, yeah. All that’s got to change. 

George: These have been dark, dark decades, in my opinion. When I first started supporting Everton, it was like the stadium of light, literally. And it’s nothing of the kind now. Well, I’m looking forward to a few years of optimism and enthusiasm for the club. 

Andy: And for the football that we might play. Yeah, and I think you can go into that, George, with the realistic expectation of that happening. It’s not going to happen straight away, because there’s such a lot of ground to catch up first. 

Paul: But under the right ownership, with the right funding, and there will be that, moving into new ground, which obviously produces more income, etc., etc. we’re going to be in a decent position to recover much of the ground that we’ve lost. 

Paul: Whether we can get back to the top of the game or not is an argument for a different day, but we can certainly move on from both the corporate performance that we’ve had under Moshiri, but also the footballing performance that we have under managers like Dyche, and that’s my main point about where we are today. 

Paul: Yeah, I echo and applaud every word of it. Well, we could talk for hours and I have got an awful lot to say about Moshiri. Probably we’ll leave it until Moshiri actually has gone through the door. So that might be next weekend, it’s a pre-Christmas special. 

The Grinch talking about Moshiri. Because boys, there’s such a lot to say about him. But yeah, there we go. Should be a monumental week for the club. 

George: Yes, I hope so. Wouldn’t that be fabulous? We have our names all over the back pages for good reason. 

Paul: For the right reasons, yeah. I suppose just to finish in the same way that both you, Andy and George, correctly praised the players for what they did yesterday and their attitude, application, et cetera, et cetera, in difficult circumstances. 

As we get to the end of a really difficult period of time for the club where the club almost went out of existence under Moshiri’s guidance in inverted commas. And let’s not forget that the club only survived because of the fans. 

Not through anything else. It was the fans that kept this club together. It was the fans that identified where the real problems in the club lay, which was at board level and ownership level. And you could argue significantly before Moshiri arrived, but ultimately, throughout all the crises of the last seven, seven, eight years, many nine years, it’s the fans that kept this club going. 

George: 100%. Yeah. And it’s funny enough, it just made me think that yesterday, how great it was in that 95th minute, the camera panned on the corner where the Everton fans were, it was absolutely jam-packed. 

and when the camera panned around the rest of the stadium there was massive gaps because the whining Arsenal fans had gone home but the Blues had stayed and stayed to the very end as all football fans should do in my opinion if you’ve paid your money stay to the end don’t just walk out because you’ve all them nasty scouches haven’t let us score well tough shit we ain’t going nowhere sorry to end with that but that was annoying to the Arsenal fans yesterday they’re so soft and fair play to those all those Blues who made the effort to get to the Emirates yesterday got behind the team throughout and stayed to the bitter end fantastic and what they they deserve that point yeah they deserve that point those those traveling fans as they deserve every point that we get on the road.

Paul: Yep okay let’s leave it there we can go back to opening our Advent calendars and at one point during the week a Friedkin is going to jump out.

Thanks for time guys, really enjoyed the conversation as always and thanks to everybody for listening and um thanks for all the feedback that we get because we we do get quite a bit of feedback quite often privately but um it’s great to receive it so um yeah here’s to a great week

All:  cheers bye bye bye