Paul: Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, depending upon where in the world you are. And what time of the day you’re listening to this pre-Christmas, post-Moshiri, now-Friedkin version of Talking the Blues. 

Andy and George, how are you both?

George: Not bad, yes. 

Andy: Good, yeh

Paul: Andy, you’re reaching for the sky?

Andy: I just thought we should have the same tune from Reach for the Sky, as the intro music, because, you know, a brand new dawn. 

Dan Friedkin’s got a Spitfire, Kenneth Moore was flying a Spitfire, there’s Douglas Bader, and I just thought the title of the film marries well with, hopefully, the future for Everton Football Club under the Friedkins. 

Reach for the sky, let’s start looking up and stop looking down, so we can look down on other people. Not with a worry on our face. 

Paul: Yeah, I mean, before we get into the game, and obviously we’ll get into the  Friedkins in a bit more detail later, what a difference a few days makes? 

Andyl: Oh, yeah. Well, yeah, it gives everybody a lift, doesn’t it? Yeah. I mean, you know, they’re not going to be under any illusions. They’ve got an awful lot of work to do, but, I mean, you’ve got to say… 

that the first words that they’ve uttered and for anyone that hasn’t yet looked please look at the Friedkin Group website (https://www.friedkin.com/) that’s well worth a gander. 

George: Why is it worth a gander? 

Andy: Well it opens all about everything, it’s really really good it’s something that we haven’t it’s the kind of digital marketing that we haven’t had, well we’ve never had it’s really really good, it’s really professional and I noticed there was a picture on the internet the other day I think it’s one of their one of their buildings in the States and I honestly thought hang on then they’ve redeveloped Finch Farm and it’s one of their buildings in the States it’s all plastered with Everton logos and this is Everton Football Club and you think to yourself they’ve done more in probably 96 hours than the previous regime did in eight years in trying to elevate the profile of the club. 

This is absolutely space age stuff compared to Moshiri and Kenwright days. It bodes tremendously well for the future of how they’re going to address and tackle you know returning Everton to the place that we all want them to be which is right at the top table challenging for every trophy that we can possibly do and hopefully winning some of them. 

Paul: It’s really impressive what they’ve done since it was announced. I wasn’t really going to talk about this at this stage but I may as well and I think everybody Evertonians are going to be very pleasantly surprised by the difference and it’s a difference that we’ve probably never seen at our football club or actually not seen since the John Moores days and for a very particular reason. 

When John Moores invested in Everton Football Club he obviously did so with the money that he generated from Littlewood Pools but that was their family business so he was investing his own money in something that carried his name and represented him and even in the even in those days when branding wasn’t quite so important, gave an impression a presentation a representation of the type of person and the type of family and the type of business person that he was and that’s why the Moores family had so much pride in owning Everton Football Club because it was a representation in so many different ways of the values that they brought to their own business. 

And the values that they had as individuals and the values that they had as a family. And I think that’s something that’s been missing for many, many years at Everton because the monies that have been used to do whatever has been done at Everton for the last 30 odd years has never actually been family money. 

It’s never actually been the money of the people who actually own the club. It’s always been somebody else’s money. 

And there is, and I know from personal experience, there is a massive difference between running a business that is owned by somebody else or that is funded by somebody else as opposed to running a business that is funded by your own money or the money that you’ve generated from other business activities. 

And you’re quite right about the entrance, that is the entrance to the Friedkin Group headquarters. in Texas. And, you know, it demonstrates a pride, a pride in having acquired Everton Football Club. And I’ll talk a little bit about the finances later. 

But, you know, they’ve done so generally out of their own resources. And it, I think it makes a huge, huge difference. And I think we’ll see this. And we’ll grow to appreciate the benefits and the advantages that this style of investing brings. 

And it is going to be very, very different from what we’ve experienced in the last 40/45 years and it’s great. It’s great for the football club. Right. Sorry, George, I could across you. No, you didn’t. 

George: I interrupted you to say thanks. Expletive deleted for that. 

Paul: Yeah. And, you know, just very, very quickly in the, you know, the short messages that have been put out there. Obviously, these people are professional people, they’re successful business people. 

But it’s their family business. And there will be people listening to this podcast who run their own family businesses of different sizes in different industries. And, but they’ll also they will, they will all recognize that particular point that this is now a family run business, resourced predominantly through its own funding, there’s, there’s some money that’s coming from banks, but not a huge amount in the grand scheme of things. 

And, it will make a massive difference. And I for one, can’t wait to see what type of job they do. First of all, stabilizing everything, then creating a platform for growth, and then creating a platform for excellence, which is what we’ve got to do now in order to get away from where we currently are. 

And you know, we’re going to go on now to talk about the results against Chelsea. And at one level, it will be viewed by many people. And I’m not criticizing people for saying this as a very, very good result. 

But for me, I still I’m still uncomfortable with the idea that drawing mill nill against Arsenal or drawing no no against Chelsea is a good result, because I actually want us to be the Arsenal or or be the Chelsea, where we’re going to grounds and and beating other clubs, and where we would be disappointed with a no no result. 

Now, I know we’re a long way away from that. And I, you know, I know many of the reasons, and we’ve talked about many of the reasons for many years as to why we’re in this position. But yeah, that’s where I’m coming from. 

I’m not going to stress the negative aspects of how we’ve got here, because it’s time to move on now.

Andy:  Well, yeah, because I mean, cutting across you Paul, I mean, I know what you said last week after the draw at the Emirates. 

You know, we said about, you know, would a nil-nil draw at home against Chelsea suffice, and it probably wouldn’t. But you’ve got to say that we’ve stopped the two top scoring sides currently in the division from scoring in the last two games. 

Now, it might not have been overly pretty to watch. I think it was a better watch today than the game at the Emirates. And considering the conditions with the wind and the rain and everything, I actually thought both sides did pretty well in trying to put on a game of football when it could just have become, well, aerial tennis, really. 

The wind at times was ridiculous. And so was the rain, particularly in the first hour. So I think, you know, take into account the conditions, take into account probably a little bit of pressure on the players. 

You know, it’s the last home game before Christmas. It’s the first game under the new ownership, you know, with the new executive chairman in the stadium. They would want to do something to try and impress him, but against the side that’s been scoring goals for fun. 

George: And on the face of it, nil-nil could be construed as not great. But I think when you take everything into account, that was a well-deserved point today. We were certainly more, the mind. in my opinion, I thought we were more aggressive in trying to get forward and trying to find a way to score a goal. 

We were unlucky with the Harrison effort, which he probably should have done better with. I think it was his first touch of letting down rather than the shot as such, it just gave the goalie a little extra second to adjust his position. 

Andy: Overall, again, all the players that got on the pitch in a blue shirt today put a shift in. Good to see Seamus Coleman come back in later on, after Young had been booked, and maybe Sean Dyche realised that that booking means that Ashley Young can’t play against City on Boxing Day, so he had to give Seamus some time to see what he’s matched. 

Fitness levels were like and I thought shame has slotted in seamlessly. You know this is pretty potent, as our kid said last week, this is a very potent Chelsea side and we kept them quiet. In fact, arguably the better chances, there was the one in the first half,I think it was Jackson that Pickford saved, but I thought the better chances actually went our way. 

Mangala had a shot saved, a first half decent shot from about 25 yards. Young had a free kick that was easily gathered by the keeper. There weren’t too many chances in the game, clear-cut chances, but I thought we had slightly the better of the clear-cut chances. 

We were heavily out possessed again, but that’s just the norm under Sean Dyche unfortunately and that’s I know that’s what really gets up your caw. I think you have to take everything into account and right now, 2-0-0’s against the two top scoring sides in the division. 

I think at the start of the month if we’d said we’ll get two points in those games and we’ll stop them scoring, we might have been laughed at.

George: Excuse me. Well you didn’t know yet. You were sixes with five mil every game. 

Go on bro. I’m just disappointed we didn’t beat them both, but yeah I mean yeah it was I mean I was fascinated by how the players might react to the new ownership and the news. It must have been good for them I would think. 

They must have felt some fresh air and you’re right that they put in a better effort than they did against a more positive effort than they did against Arsenal. But the truth is that they were set up to do what they did. 

And they did it. I hate watching either Beto or DCL just running around chasing hopelessly. It does my head in. But as you say, this is the time for pragmatism and that was pragmatic. And as the Chelsea manager said, they’re a very good defensive team. 

They’re hard to break down. And we were hard to break down. Did he not call us the best in Europe, one of the best defensive sides in Europe? Apparently, yeah. Yeah, I just read that. I mean, obviously, I mean, that’s nice to hear. 

Obviously, we preferred if we were one of the best offensive sides in Europe. right now. That’s not Everton Football Club. That’s got to be something for the future and how and when we get to that point is the $64,000 question now. 

Andy: I mean, like I said, all joking aside, at the start of the month, we were dreading December. 

George: I’m going to protest. You were. I kept saying to you both, the players will be lifted by playing they’re not supposed to win. 

And they have been really cohesive and utterly without ambition, which is horrible to watch as in Evertonian. But that’s where we’re at at the moment. And I think, you know, I shouldn’t think City are going to, in the state they’re in, look forward to seeing us on Boxing Day because they won’t get much out of it. 

 Paul: Hope. If anything at all. And of the players that played today, sorry, I mean, apologies to people listening. I unfortunately couldn’t see the game. I was engaged in something else. Did anybody particularly stand out? 

George: Well, Andy’s been eating humble pie about Ashley Young. And so my slice of humble pie today was Doucoure, who had a terrific game. He did actually look a lot more energised, didn’t he? He’s grown a mustache. 

It makes a big difference. And he’s looking in the mirror going, hey, I look like Ronald Kolman. I’m sexy. So he had a blinder. Yeah. And DCL just breaks my heart watching him. It’s just horrible. Horrible. 

And on our own park as well. Chase that, chase that, chase that, chase that. You never know. You might get something. for one mistake but again you’ve got it you’ve actually got to give him a little bit of credit for sticking at it the way he does I do I mean you know whether he’s going to whether he’s going to sign a new contract and stay or not there’s another $64,000 question but well if you were Dominic Calvert-Lewin’s agent you’d be going tell me who the next coach is going to be?

Andy: Yeah yeah exactly exactly well I mean you know as you said you know you’re eating Humble Pie for Doucoure. I ate Humble Pie on Ashley Young who had another good game today against against Sancho it was a really interesting tussle against you know an up-and-coming star against an aging, I was going to say Lothario, but you know He’s no spring chicken, 

Ashley Young, but he played him well. He used his experience against someone much younger and much quicker and fair play to him. He did it. He did a good job. Mykolenko had another decent game. 

George: He was tricky, that boy. Pardon. He was tricky, that boy, Netta. 

Andy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know, but I thought I thought for the most part, Mykolenko handled him really well, Tarkovsky and his battle with Jackson at times, at times, Cole Palmer and then their centre half when we did get forward for a few free kicks and corners was quite entertaining watching Tarko. 

I’m not. He clearly relishes the physical aspect of the game. He’s comical with it. He just seems, you know, he’ll jump up in someone’s face and laugh at them. It must have been terrible on the school playing field, me and me. 

One of those players, he’s one of those guys you want on your side, though, because he won’t back down from anybody and he’ll get stuck in. You know, I thought I would like to say as well, I thought Branthwaite had his best game for a few weeks as well. 

There were the last couple of games. He’s been the odd little error, but he looks solid as a rock today. And the interesting one, the commentator on the stream, I was watching said, this is the oldest team in the league against the youngest team in the league. 

George: All right. And next week, Seamus will be there. That will only drop the average try a little bit. Yeah, anyway, you know, it’s what it is. And I’m sure the CEO is watching us to talk. 

Yeah, OK. That’s a basis to work from. They’re not going to go, we’re not going to get relegated. We may not score many goals. In fact, I can’t see where I am. You know, I mean, that’s what’s so tedious. In a match like that, he sets it up the way it is. 

Would it really have made such a big difference defensively? Had he, for instance, Paul, Harrison, for example, I mean, I thought Harrison worked super hard today. And you’re right about the goal that he might have scored. 

I’m sure he thinks he should have scored. But the goal that save was something else. Goalie was out fast, man. Really, really fast. But would it, you know, would it, would we not have played so well defensively, had he started with DCL and Chimitti or DCL and Beto even? 

And might we have given them a great deal more problems? Because we didn’t give them any problems. You know, it was fascinating watching Chelsea. because they’re very confident, and so they should be. 

And so they were happy to take their time because they knew that eventually, that’s only the second time this season that they haven’t scored a goal. So they knew they were going in. I found all that fascinating. 

And the other thing, I will say this about Chelsea. When we got beaten by six at Stamford Bridge, I remember saying at the time we should have beaten them. We missed a chance before they scored. And then you remember when Palmer had already got a hat trick and they all started fannying around about who was taking the penalty. 

And they looked like what they clearly were, which was a bunch of petulant, overpaid. You know, I was looking at them today and thinking, how about their haircuts cost more than our team? Well, let me finish this point, Andy. 

So respect to that manager, because they were slick and they are focused. And the team that beat us 6-0 last year were not focused at all. They were focused on something very selfish and beady and greedy and mean. 

That squad that he put out today was focused on winning. And respect for him. And if we are going to replace Mr. Dyche, someone like him, please, would be lovely. 

Andy: Well, there’s something funny you mentioned, you know, about they’d probably pay more for their haircuts and this, that, and the other. 

I got a message earlier, and I’ve not checked this, but we all know how Chelsea have been quite free in throwing money around on signing players. But someone sent me a message saying that had Kukarela played at left back today. he wasn’t playing because he was suspended. 

Had he been in their starting lineup today, their squad, their starting 11, would have cost more than Bramley Dock. And it just makes you wonder if that’s, Paul will probably go away now and check all the transfer fees that are starting to line up. 

But if that’s true or if it’s even close to being true, it begs the question of the Premier League. I mean, we’ve all begged questions of the Premier League, but we got deducted points of profit and sustainability issues last year and it’s still hanging rounders at the moment going forward. 

It’s like, you know, that they’re still looking at Everton’s books, etc, etc, etc. And yet Chelsea have spent more on 11 players than Everton have spent on building a 52,888 seat stadium. And like I said, it just begs the question, Premier League. 

George:  Really, what are you looking at? What are you choosing to turn a blind eye to, or not looking at? Because there’s no way that can be kosher, that they’ve not that they’ve not abused profit and sustainability rules in some way, shape or form. 

Paul: It’s just I hear what you’re saying, Andy, if I can offer a small defence on Chelsea’s behalf, not acting as an advocate for them, just stating how they can do this. They’ve done it through three different ways. 

First of all, their revenue is more than three times our revenue, in fact, nearly four times our revenues. Secondly, player trading, they’ve managed to sell players consistently. 

And thirdly, they’ve managed to use the slackness within the Premier League rules. Some people would argue, abuse the rules, but they would argue, well, no, the rules are written, and we’ve just used the rules, as they certainly abused the spirit of the game. 

I would accept that entirely. In selling assets are owned by the football club, i.e. they sell the hotels, albeit to another part of the ownership group. That’s then down to the quality of the rules and the quality of regulation. 

That’s how whilst I can see why people get incredibly frustrated and annoyed about that and what it does in terms of competitiveness across the league. I would just point to the fact that there are opportunities that would have been available to Everton had Everton been run properly at any time over the last 25 years. 

Andy; Yeah, I know. I play. And that’s trying to be as impartial as it possibly can be. You know, it’s not fair that, you know, a team like Chelsea can put a squad together that is maybe four or five times more expensive than Everton’s. 

Paul: But that’s how the rules are written. And they would argue, well, if we got the resources, if we generated the resources, if we sold assets, why can’t we spend that money on having a squad that not only competes in the Premier League, but more importantly for them competes in the Champions League? 

You know, because that’s… That’s what they’re looking at. They’re looking at the Champions League and now we’ll be looking at the FIFA World Club Cup, which now has a ludicrous sponsorship arrangement through Saudi backing, where they will generate even more money for themselves through their competitiveness, which will allow them to continue to invest and invest bigger and greater amounts in the squad going forward. 

So the bigger question for me is, can you change, can somebody change the rules going forwards that sort of reduces that competitive gap and that’s where the independent regulator comes in, perhaps, although it’s a very difficult job for whomever that person might be. 

But as an Evertonian, and maybe the answer now will become apparent as the free can get their feet under the table and move us forwards, given that the rules are what they are currently, how can Everton best compete in what is ostensibly an unfair system? 

George: And what’s the five minute answer to that question? 

Paul: Well, I think the Friedkins answered it to a degree in the small number of points that they made in the opening letter to Everton fans, one of which is to generate as much commercial income as we possibly can going forwards. 

The second point, and I think it’s an important point, and I think we’ve touched on it a little bit, is actually getting a functioning academy, an academy that either produces, as we talked about previously, players for Everton or produce players that can be sold at a profit. 

That’s the other thing that Chelsea. do extremely well. They sweep up huge numbers of young players, and they manage to sell those players, sometimes not to, you know, the highest level clubs, but they still manage to move those players on, and generally move those players on at a profit, all of which then can be reinvested back into the first team squad. 

And that’s the, you know, if that’s the nature of the game, that’s the game that everything has to play. And we have to become proficient, we have to become proficient at that. And I think it was telling that the Friedkin group put that in, you know, essentially what is the first communication. 

So, you know, the five or six points that they made was effectively their manifesto going forwards. And it’s that that will not necessarily make us competitive to begin with, but it’s that that will reduce the competitive gap. 

And that’s obviously what we’ve lacked for so long, first of all a plan and secondly an ability to execute the plan once the plan has been drawn up. That’s good to hear. Big time. And you know frankly that’s the only way that you can do it. 

And you know I think the Friedkins have a clear understanding of that. Whether they know enough about football to be able to do it themselves or whether they need to bring in other expertise around them. 

I suspect only time will tell but you know they’ve made the point. 

George: Yeah that’s why I said you know their first three or four days have been talking about a breath of fresh air. Yeah. Someone’s a hurricane of fresh air. 

Paul: 

Paul: I mean they’ve said strengthening the first team squad with thoughtful and strategic investment, well that’s a big change for a start. Because when we had money available and obviously we haven’t had money available for a number of years now 

When we had that money available at the beginning of the Moshiri era and that’s ostensibly what caused the problems other than sort of the global factors elsewhere. It was neither thoughtful nor was it strategic. 

I think if you asked somebody to write a list of a hundred adjectives for the first couple of years of the Moshiri era, thoughtful or strategic would appear. 

And then they go on from that for the second point is cultivating homegrown superstars through Everton Academy. 

Big tick in the box for that. Obviously needs a lot of work and there’s going to be a period of time before that work actually produces results. the fact that they recognize that on day one, as, you know, a significant part of what they’ve got to do, is very encouraging for the future. 

They then talk about, and I know we don’t talk about women’s football so much. And to be honest, it’s been on a back boiler ever since because of a lack of resources. But, you know, they want to, well, they’re fostering a distinct on-pitch and commercial strategy for the women’s team. 

And if I can just pick up a little point on that, I’ve often thought that women’s football, and not just at Everton, but obviously, you know, all the other clubs, because they’re owned by Premier League clubs predominantly, all of the marketing, all of the commercial activities, even at the successful clubs, are driven towards those people that watch the men’s football, not those people that watch women’s football. And I think there’s, there’s the, there is a case and hopefully this is where the Friedkins are going, where effectively you have two different strands in terms of your marketing strategy. 

Here’s the marketing strategy that appeals to a predominantly male audience watching the men’s game. And then here’s an audience that maybe appeals to it. Sorry, here’s a strategy that appeals to a different audience who watch the women’s game. 

And that might be predominantly women, it might be a younger audience, it almost certainly will be a younger audience. And it may be a junior audience as well. And maybe just their, their greater commercial awareness means that they recognize that distinction. 

And it’s not a distinction that I see anywhere else in football. And that might give us a real competitive advantage. Dan, good to hear. Yeah. I mean, it’s interesting then that having said that, so, you know, strategic, thoughtful investment in the squad, cultivating superstars from the academy, addressing the issues in women’s football and everything, they then sort of turn their major points towards, 

I’m not saying necessarily what they think the fans would like to hear, but what will be, and undoubtedly is, you know, music to the eyes, music to the ears, sorry, of all Evertonians. And that is, and how many times have we talked about the lack of respect to the club’s traditions and keeping Everton the heart of the community? 

Probably not so much the latter point, but we’ve certainly talked for many, many years and many other fans of our generation and younger would identify that point that the club has not made maintained the traditions that we believe are consistent with Everton Football Club yet here are people coming in and straight away recognize that this is something that is obviously important to fans but it’s also actually very very important to the Football Club because it is a and we talked about it, 

Everton is a unique institution in world football and when I say unique, I don’t mean it’s the only one because clearly it’s not the only one but there’s a small number of highly storied football clubs around the world that have huge significance depending upon what their particular story is and Everton should be right up there with any other of the major storied clubs around the world I think if you drew a list of maybe the 10 most storied, 

Most historic football clubs around the world those clubs that First of all, there’s a lot to talk about in terms of what they’ve done in the past, but also to talk about what they’ve actually put into football over the years, both in terms of the development of the game, but the individual players that they’ve brought into the game, introduced into the game, developed and allowed those players to have a career in football. 

Everton, when you really sit down and identify all of those individual points, I don’t know if it’s a top 10 or the top 20, it doesn’t matter. We are one of those clubs around the world that tick every box, if that’s something that is of interest. 

And that must be of interest to anybody who’s got a wider interest than just the particular club that they support themselves. But it also has a huge commercial attraction if, as I believe, what will happen now, the Friedkins will take the Everton brand and they will start to do what we’ve always talked about, which is to sell that brand around the world and to associate Everton Football Club with other leading brands and find those brands that see something in Everton that will support and strengthen their own commercial activities. 

And again, it comes back to the fact one of the points I made at the very beginning, because this is now a family business, I haven’t had anybody else talk about this, and I’m gonna stress this for a number of weeks until other people start talking about it. 

This is a family business. They are not going to want to associate their family name, their football club. Okay, I know they own two other football clubs, but this is by far and away the highest profile and most significant investments. 

Forgive me, Roma fans, if you’re listening to this. that they’ve made to date, and they are not going to want to associate their name and the investment in a Premier League football club, such as Everton, with companies that don’t meet the standards and don’t meet both the quality control type issues that they will have, but ultimately the values that they have. 

And I’m not putting them out to be paragons of virtue by any stretch of the imagination. These are hard-nosed, very successful commercial and capitalists, if you want to put it in those terms, because that’s what they are. 

But that’s what the modern day game demands. And I think a company like the Friedkin Group that associates with premier brands, Andy, you being in the automobile industry, will know the quality of Toyota. 

Andy: The quality of Lexus. I worked for Toyota for a while, didn’t I? 

Paul: Yeah. And you know, you look at their other business activities in the film and entertainment sectors. You look at the activities in the leisure and travel businesses. 

They’re all very, very high quality products. And they all associate with other very high quality products and brands. And you can bet your bottom dollar that they haven’t bought Everton to dilute all of the hard work that they’ve done elsewhere within their group. 

They’ve bought Everton to enhance the value of their group and to enhance the value of the Friedkin brand. And that’s why, as you correctly identified, Andy, when you first  go on to the Friedkin site this evening or tomorrow or whenever, the first thing that you’ll see is a wonderful montage about Everton Football Club. 

Why have they done that? They don’t have other investors to satisfy. This is not a public company. So they haven’t done it for any other reason other than, first of all, they’re proud of the purchase that they’ve acquired. 

And secondly, they see value in telling the world that they are the owners of Everton Football Club. And who on earth as an Evertonian would not want to hear that? Yeah, good start for me. Yeah. And then just to finish off going through the points, keeping Everton at the heart of the community, absolutely essential. 

That doesn’t mean to say that EITC has to be the tail that’s wagging the dog, which it has been in the past. But it also, you know, that particular point doesn’t mean EITC is any less important today than it was yesterday, because frankly, given economic conditions around North Liverpool. 

And the social conditions, and the lack of government support, even with the Labour government in terms of moving things forward for people far less fortunate than many other people across the UK. It’s really important that Everton continue that. 

I know through some of my associations with the Chelsea Foundation, for example, in London, how important work is in an area that is a thousand times more lucrative and wealthy than L4 and North Liverpool. 

So how much more valuable must Everton in the Community be in a community that has a true need for it? So they see that, and again, I think it’s really important that they see those values and they want to maintain those values, no doubt at some point in the future we’ll want to promote it. 

And then of course they talk about the stuff that again, we’ve talked about and I know other people have talked about and this does need a lot of work, but it also needs a lot of work involving other people, politicians, other investors. 

And that’s long-term commercial partnerships and events that benefit the city of Liverpool through the new stadium. And we’ve talked on here and others have talked about the fact that the stadium is built, is now the build is complete and the stadium has been handed back to it or handed over to everything, still needs fitting out obviously. 

But there’s as of yet, still very little investment in and around the immediate area, probably more. And I don’t for a second imagine that it’s going to be the freak-ins that do this, but they see the responsibility of attracting that investment. 

Not only to make their investment in everything a better investment, but the needs of the city itself. Now we’ve never heard that from our owners. Yes, we had the People’s Club and we had the People’s Project when we were going through the planning permission stage of the stadium. 

That actually there was nothing really meaningful beyond that. It was words on a piece of paper and nothing really was driven through beyond that, I don’t think. And it’s interesting again, in another piece of their communication, they talk about action, not words. 

Now proof of the pudding of that of course, is that those actions are actioned as against just being words and no time will tell whether that’s the case. And then finally, there’s the final point that they make. 

I’m sorry, I know I’m talking a lot here, but the final point that they make is enhancing Everton’s reputation as a unique and historical name in world football. And frankly, if I had to pick one of the bullet points that they’ve made, it’s sort of almost like the election pledges in a sense. 

And to me, yes, I want us to be the best possible football team that we can be. But maybe I’ve just reached a stage in my life where I actually think our reputation, who we are, not only who we are in and around Liverpool, but who we are in terms of world football is almost the most important thing to me. 

Because I like you, both of you, and like all of our listeners, and all of those Evertonians that don’t listen to us, and our… are uniquely proud of our football club. You know, we will never hide the fact with anybody that we’re an Evertonian, particularly with anybody that has an interest in football, because we want to be associated with and we recognize the values of the football club as we see it. 

And here we are with new owners coming in and recognizing that that is critically important to existing Evertonians. But it’s also important to all those people who are not yet Evertonians. And if they’re going to grow the business, there’s a whole load of people out there, some who may be listening to this podcast, who are not currently Evertonians, who need to become Evertonians. 

And the only way that they become Evertonians is by understanding actually what it is that we offer, and beyond what we offer on the pitch. Now, hopefully, over time, what we do will make that other job much easier. 

But in the meantime, we know it’s going to take some time to make Everton a super attractive playing proposition for a whole raft of reasons. But in the meantime, all of these other things are so important and so supportive to that, I suppose, what is the core thing going forward about improving the football club. 

 So for me, they get all the ticks in the box that are available.

George:  Good news. You draw a breath now. Here ends the party political broadcast on behalf of the Friedkin party. 

What bothers me about all this positivity, given that amazing thing of Andy’s about how he got more hits on his match reports when we lost. 

And what are we going to talk about? If it’s all positive, and I hope it is, you know.

Paul:  Well, it’s an interesting one, George, actually. And funny enough, I have been thinking about this. And if you think about who are the two English clubs that have the highest social media presence, both in the UK and globally, both of whom have had different levels of success over many years, sometimes spectacular success, are the two clubs which we dislike most. That’s one for the classics, isn’t it? Manchester United and Liverpool. Dennis Norden will be having that outtake for sure. And they’ve got plenty to talk about. 

And they’ve been massively successful football clubs. So I think if we just improve, if we have some success, we will have even more to talk about.

George:  We’ve had two years of difficulties. I was being somewhat facetious. 

Paul: No, no. It’s a valid point because we know through our own podcasting experience that when something terrible happens at Everton, we get more people listening.

Andy: Let’s just hope we don’t inherit their level of self entitlement. 

George: Come on, Andy. United were booed off. It’s just so sweet. Sorry. Apparently there were people leaving in droves before the end as well.

Andy:  Oh dear, how sad. Never mind. Move on. Yeah. Move on to Boxing Day in Manchester City. 

Paul: At the Etihad. Yeah. In the early kickoff. I think it’s going to be an interesting game now. It really is. It’s going to be interesting to see what City’s crowd reaction is like. There’s going to be a few sore heads, isn’t it? 

Because Boxing Day early kickoff is not. It doesn’t sort of lend itself to a vibrant atmosphere in the first place. No, it doesn’t lend itself to a great game either because the players generally have to go in and train on Christmas Day, which probably gets right up their nose. 

George: Yeah, they spend the night. They spend Christmas night in a hotel, yeah. I remember going down to Tottenham once on Boxing Day to watch. Evanton played Tottenham, one of the worst games I’ve ever seen and this Tottenham fan said, have you seen how many Scotsmen we’ve got in the team and we’re playing a match after a public holiday? 

But I suppose those things don’t apply anymore. 

Paul: Still humans, aren’t they? 

George: Yes, for goodness sake. Yeah. But again, that’s, I mean, that’s just to satisfy TV, isn’t it? Why aren’t Boxing Day games all at three o’clock? 

Paul: We’re back to that perennial discussion about kowtowing to TV and… Aren’t we actually playing on the 27th, not on Boxing Day?

Andy:  You’re going to make me start looking now, aren’t you? You don’t worry, I’m on it. 

I’m looking. Talk amongst yourselves. 

Paul: So, sorry to throw a spanner in the works there, but… 

Andy: No, Manchester City, Boxing Day, Manchester City. 12.30, isn’t it? 

Paul: Sorry, I do apologize. That’s the second bit that I’ve got to screw out then. 

Yeah. I suppose you have to ask yourself, is there a better time to play Manchester City at home? Probably isn’t there? Something really interesting, isn’t it, that’s going on at Manchester City? I suppose you could argue that tactically, you know, have they just reached the point like all teams do, that either other teams work out how to play against them, or maybe the players just stop believing in the competitive advantage that those particular tactics give, 

or is there something much more fundamental and perhaps sinister going on at Manchester City, particularly in the context of, you know, what is likely to happen to them, with regards to the, you know, the Premier League investigation and the 130 charges. 

And if the club and any of Manchester City’s lawyers are listening, I’m only making a suggestion. If the club was to be found guilty of all or most of those charges, the likely impact on the club is going to be very, very significant, to the extent where quite probably the points penalty will be so severe that they would be relegated at the end of this season. 

And therefore, you know, is it the case, and I asked the question, is it the case, that knowledge or potential knowledge of that, or knowledge of the potential for that to happen? uh just basically destroyed their season. 

George: I would have thought that was a shoe in for the yes answer because you know part of our culture is that the bookies know things and if you check the descending odds on you know a week ago uh City were 12/1 to get relegated Man United and I did who were eight points below them in the league were 250/1 to get relegated you know and they’re now 9/1 to get relegated who knows what um and I suspect the answer is really straightforward that the bookies know full well that uh that the team are toast and the the club status in the first division in the premiership is toast as well and the players know that Can I just ask a question on this then? 

Bearing in mind the points deduction that we got for breaking profit and sustainability rules, do all these charges that the City have levied against them carry a minimum, if you like, a tariff? Is it, if you are found guilty of any charge brought against you by the Premier League, it’s an automatic, per argument say, six points? 

Paul: No, I don’t think we’ve quite got to that stage yet. I think what I’m coming to, Bill Paul, is, is there a tariff? And if there is a tariff, what is it? And then, like I said, just just for argument’s sake, say there’s a tariff. 

And if you’re found guilty of breaking any rule, then it’s six points. Yeah, well, they’ve got 130 charges against them. They’d only need to get found guilty on about 10. They lose 60 points. 

Paul: Yes, I think, I think what’s now established is that any breaking of the rules is there’s a sporting penalty. 

So, you know, that was obviously the case with Everton twice. And it’s also the case with Nottingham Forest. So that is sort of established. I think the second thing that’s established is that you probably start at three points for each break of the rules. 

And the fact that it’s very difficult to see a scenario whereby if City have found, you know, quite often it’s the case where there may be a number of charges and people are found innocent on some charges and guilty on other elements of whatever the charges are. 

I’m not just talking about football, I’m talking about criminal law and stuff. It’s very difficult in this case to see whereby City are found innocent of some charges and then guilty of others. That is all, I think at least, and I’m speaking obviously from a non-legal perspective, but I think it’s the case that if they are found guilty, they get found guilty for the whole lot. 

And in that scenario, then the penalties are such that they are relegated at the end of the season. So, potentially then, three points of misdemeanor times 130? Well, I think that’s the maximum, but frankly, it doesn’t really matter, does it, once it gets above sort of 75, 80 points? 

George: Where do you want them to end up, Andy, at the conference? I’m not saying that. I’m just, I’m just hypothesizing and trying to put some meat on a bone here. Like I said, is there a tariff? If so, what is it? 

And as Paul’s just indicated, if you are found guilty or wonder, are you going to be found guilty of them all? I think given the nature of the charges, yes. Right. So I mean, let’s take it to the other end. 

Say it was 10 points per charge, and they got, that’d be 1300 points. They would be down in the Vanarama. They’re probably, probably down in the Sunday leagues.

Paul:  Well, actually, they won’t Andy, because they can’t get relegated any further than the Championship. 

Because and the reason for that, this is not the case, as it was with Rangers in the Scottish because from a legal perspective, the Scottish Premier League and the rest of the Scottish League are the same legal entity. 

And in English football, the Premier League is a separate entity to the Football League. And we therefore have no jurisdiction over what happens in the Football League, say we sorry, the Premier League has no jurisdiction over what happens in, in the Football League. 

All that would happen is that Manchester City would have whatever points deduction is. And if that points deduction puts them in the bottom three, they get relegated like Southampton or any other team will get relegated at the end of the season. 

And they just get dropped down into the championship. And the football league can’t do anything because whatever it is that they’re found guilty of on the assumption that they’re found guilty, happened in the Premier League, so they’ve got no jurisdiction near this. So they can’t say, well, you know, this is so severe that we’re going to drop you down to the fifth division or you know whatever is the is the bottom rung of of that legal entity and they can’t they can’t do that because the offenses didn’t occur in within the football league they occurred within the Premier League. 

George: So shame. 

Paul: Oh yeah it should be a fascinating scenario. 

George: Another question then given that these charges against City are going back a number of years now is there is any likelihood that if they were to be found guilty and as you’ll see you’re intimating, is there any likelihood that the Premier League could strip them of their previously achieved success. In other words, take the titles off them. I mean, it probably doesn’t mean anything. But as a form of punishment, they would no longer be recognized. 

Paul: They could no longer be recognized as champions for the last however many years. I think my understanding of the rules is that that is in theory possible. Yes. Wow. Because there is no limit to whatever penalty the Independent Commission puts on any club that’s found guilty of any particular charge. 

Whether they would do that or not, I don’t know because I think it would be hugely damaging to the Premier League brand. It would be very confusing because then does the team that comes second? It’s a bit like in the Olympics when somebody is ultimately found guilty of a drug test, then the guy or the lady that came second, you know, everybody moves up one. 

It’s all a bit messy when that happens, isn’t it? I’m not saying that it’s right. I’m just saying it’s a really difficult. It’s the obvious follow-on question, isn’t it? Yeah. That’s why I posed it. I’m not necessarily saying that I want that to happen, but it’s the obvious thing that people will start to ask, well, hang on a minute, if they’ve been found guilty and these charges go back five years, shouldn’t they have all the it could be the case that all the results are expunged. So the leagues and the final tables are rewritten on the basis that you just ignore what happened against Manchester City. And I think that happened with Accrington Stanley, when they many years ago, when they went into administration, or they went out, when actually went out of existence, in the middle of the, in the middle of the season. 

But again, that seems really difficult, because then what happens if that means that a club that might have been relegated shouldn’t have been relegated. It’s not really, it’s not really a can of worms that you want to open, is it, if you’re the Premier League? 

No, I suspect it’s not. But like I said, it’s just, you know, for many, I would suspect, I mean, I might be wrong, not only me that’s asking that question, but I imagine that there’s going to be a whole host of fans from various clubs are all around the country, and maybe even all around the world are going to say, well, hang on a minute. 

Yeah, I think if you’re the CEO of a club gets relegated in a year whereby your results against City are such that had you not played City in that year, you wouldn’t have been relegated, then you’d be asking your lawyers to examine it. 

But it seems like… Yeah, it’s a kind of word, isn’t it? Yeah, and it just seems counterproductive. Anyway, that’s for the future. And thankfully, it’s the sky blues of City, not the royal blues of Everton that have to worry about that so much. 

So like, you know, good results. 16 points now, I think. So we’re now, is it four points above relegation space? How many, I think, is it seven as of the last 10 games where we’ve kept a clean sheet? 

So Dyche will be feeling very, very pleased with himself. It’s interesting that he started to acknowledge in his post match comments, the need to start scoring goals. But how he does that, how he goes about that, frankly, I don’t know. 

And it would be fascinating, like we talked about last week, if one of the journalists actually said, Sean, just on that point, can you explain how you’re going to go about that? Because I think his answer would be really interesting. 

And I think it would probably catch him, not that you’re looking to catch him on the spot, but you’re okay. So you’ve identified it as a problem, your job is to actually identify the solution. Because it’s a very obvious problem to everything football club scoring goals. 

And how are you going to achieve that? 

George: And he would say to you what Andy started this podcast by saying We have the better chances today. They’ll go in. Stop worrying. He sort of tried that last year a bit, didn’t he? 

Andy: That wasn’t as convincing as my argument, bro. No. 

George: Well, I’m not convinced by it, Andy. 

Paul: He tried that to a degree last year, didn’t he, in terms of justifying the low number of goals that we scored by? 

Well, look at our XG, you know, statistically our expected goals as against our actual goals.

George: Oh, for goodness sake.

Andy:  Yeah, I know, exactly. I mean, you don’t win the goal, you don’t win the league on XG. 

George: So that’s a complete nonsense, man. But, you know, it’s an interesting point. And if we’ve turned, as it would appear, if we turn the corner defensively, and I think there’s every justification for Dyche to say that. 

Paul: But we’ve done so by becoming uber defensive and ignoring any real prospect of scoring in open play. How he now maintains that solidity at the back whilst increasing the threat going forwards. And if Dyche is to remain as manager at Everton beyond the short term, and I think there’s a question mark over that still, he’s got to very quickly prove that he can address the second part of the problem as effectively as he’s addressed the first part. 

And that for Dyche is the biggest problem because, you know, and that’s the area where this is not, you know, we’re not unique in saying this, this is the area that’s caused him problems throughout his managerial career. 

His teams don’t score enough goals. Because to be fair to the guy, if his team scored more goals, he’d actually be a much better manager and he’d have much better results than he has tried to create a date. 

And he’d be much more highly thought of, not least by the fans of whichever club he happens to be managing at the time. But in his 10, 11 years in the Premier League, he’s, and he’ll have all his own reasons for why not. 

He’s not once really demonstrated an ability to solve that problem. And again, you’re going back goals and results tend to come with fixing starts, don’t they? But, you know, going back to what did the Friedkins do about it, I’m pretty sure that’s, you know, given the intelligence of their communication so far, that’s going to be the question that they will be asking Sean Dyche, okay, you’re not going to have a lot of money to spend in the January window, 

Or rather, ever since we’re not going to have a lot of money to spend. spend in the January window, they’re already setting the scene for that. Although using PSR is the reason as against availability of money. 

And in that scenario, what are you going to do that makes it different? Because, frankly, if you can’t come up with it, I think, but I don’t think you should be there anyway. But I think if you can’t come up with an adequate answer to that question, then he won’t be there. 

Andy: No. While we’re talking about communication, just to not deliberately want to put a downer on this podcast, because it’s all been pretty positive so far, but after the announcement that the takeover had been completed and everything, we then on Friday night got a tweet from Everton Football Club, that the club had got the keys to Bramley-Moore Dock. So it just beggars belief with me, in fact, it really irritated me, to be honest with you, that here is a majorly significant moment in the immediate present, obviously, and the future of Everton Football Club, that this brand new stadium is now the clubs. 

And I just thought, you know, a throwaway tweet at eight o’clock on a Friday night, why why wasn’t that? A major media announcement by the club, it could have been done today, for argument’s sake, it could have been done post game today. 

You know, everybody knew that there was going to be representation from the Friedkin group in the stadium. And Marc Watts, the new executive chairman, was there in the director’s box. Why wasn’t there a post match pre-match event or post-match press conference with Colin Chong, who’s the current or has been the interim CEO and the driver for as much as we know of it, of the stadium project. 

Mr. Watts representing the Friedkin group and somebody from Laing O’Rourke to hand over a ceremonial key in front of the media bearing in mind, we were playing Chelsea. There would have been quite a bit of London media there today. 

The national and regional radio stations would have been there. Sky Sports News could have been invited. This could have been a major media announcement from Everton Football Club. And no, it was stuck out in a tweet on Friday evening and to me it was that was a massive massive lost opportunity to grab the headline news or to be part of the headlines on today in you know on today’s sporting calendar I just think it was a missed opportunity and a piece of ranked bad thinking by whoever sanctioned sticking that out on a Friday night at eight o’clock on Twitter so I hope that in terms of in terms of that kind of communication for me I sincerely hope that that is an issue that the freaking group will address much sooner rather than later that you know if we’ve got something to say then we say it professionally and in a manner which projects the club forward rather than being a last-minute Friday night before we go to the pub which is how it struck me on Friday night. 

Paul: Absolutely, I totally, totally agree with you on that point. For me, I didn’t think there was any necessity to make that announcement at all this side of Christmas.

Andy:  No, but if you’re going to make it this side of Christmas, do it when the new people are in town and Mr. Watts was in town today. I’m sure he wouldn’t have minded going down to the press room 10 minutes after the game. With Colin Chong and somebody from Langone Road with a ceremonial key. You know, in front of Sky Sports News, Radio Merseyside, Talk Sport, the London Press were there following Chelsea. 

It was to me, that’s a golden opportunity, completely wasted. 

George: Well, yep, I agree.

Andy:  So that’s my pre-Christmas rant. We’ll do our best not to have any rants from this point on.

George: Why? People tune in for our rants.  

Yeah, man. Right, answer your questions, because you’re not running the PR department is the the answer. Well, and you may be a bit late with the audition.

Andy:  I just think, you know, well, I’ve already said it. I’m just thinking it was a missed opportunity.

Paul:  All right. Well, listen, gents, I’m going to call time. OK. Well, it’s been a really interesting conversation, I think, about the match against Chelsea and obviously about all the things that have happened at Everson. 

I suppose, you know, we will obviously talk before the end of the year, before the new year.

Andy: Oh, yeah. Well, I would say, yeah, well, we’ve got, we’ve got two games and we’ve got City on Boxing Day and then Forest on a week on a week today. 

Paul: Yeah, Sunday today. Yeah. Yeah. Can I, can I just finish with one sort of one point that I think, well, personally, I think it is very important.

Obviously, we now go into Christmas in a much better frame of mind, probably because of what’s been happening on the pitch, even if what’s happening on the pitch isn’t necessarily that attractive, the results at least have shown a marked improvement. 

But obviously, for me, the biggest thing is the change of ownership, something that we’ve, as a fan base, some have just wanted, but many, many, many people have campaigned actively for a number of years before Moshiri, but certainly not long after Moshiri arrived, and it became apparent that, you know, just money alone was not the solution to the problems that Everton faced. 

And I think there’s a number of people, not an awful number, a lot of people. There are thousands in terms of the support that Everton received on the pitch, and around Goodison Park, with all of the coach welcomes and the blue smoke and everything else. 

And they all need to be completely congratulated. But there’s, there’s a number of people for whom, if it hadn’t been for their intervention at various points in the last 12 or 18 months, our football club would not have survived. 

And that intervention was made voluntarily and willingly on the basis that they had the resources to help the club. But above all else, because they didn’t need to be committed, they were committed to the future of the football club whilst we sorted ourselves out, and whilst we found suitable owners, and I think all Evertonians, and the people I’m thinking of wouldn’t want to be named publicly. 

But I think all Evertonians over Christmas, if when you’re talking about Everton, and when you’re thinking about the better times ahead, because there will be much better times ahead now, if you just raise a glass to those people that did some extraordinary things and did things way beyond the call of duty, as fans of Everton Football Club, and did so in such a manner that kept the club going until people like the free kids came along. 

And that for me, is like very, very important that those people, whilst not recognized publicly, or individually or named, and we just think about those people because the club has not survived because of the past custodians of the club, the club has survived because of those individuals who did the things that they had to do in order to keep the club in business. 

And I, for one, thank them and will raise a glass to them over the Christmas period. 

Andy & George: Yeah, yeah, no issue. 

Paul: Good. All right, gents. Well, wish we all have a very good Christmas, no doubt? 

Very Merry Christmas to everybody that listens to us. 

That, you know, whatever circumstances you find yourselves in, you have a good Christmas and you can look forward to much better times as an Evertonian. And again, whatever your circumstances are individually, much better times in 2025, you know, whatever those circumstances are. 

So it’s, I think it’s just best wishes from the three of us.

George & Andy:  Absolutely. Yep. And many thanks as well for all your support. 

All: All right. Happy Christmas, everyone. Yeah. Yeah. Merry Christmas.