Welcome to this week’s Talking the Blues Podcast with George and Andy Costigan. This week, our two Salfordian blue brothers look back on Saturday’s 2-2 draw versus United – the last time the fixture will be played at Goodison Park.
We have a lengthy discussion over VAR, how and why it failed this time, before talking about the continuing fall-out re Bramley-Moore and the transport infrastructure.
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The transcript edition, for those with difficulty listening to podcasts will be available in the morning (Monday GMT)
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It is important that the sound of the conversation between the referee and the VAR is made public.What I think happened is that the referee told the VAR officials that he had given the penalty BECAUSE OF A FOUL BY MAGUIRE ON YOUNG. It turns out that Maguire committed no foul. So, when the VAR officials played the video back to the referee, they appear to only have looked at the view from the Bullens Rd cameras, looking at the Maguire involvement. I was at the front of the Park End, no more than 20 yards from the incident. Myself and everyone around me saw the shirt pulling and WE believed that is why the penalty was given. Did the VAR officials see the shirt pull from the Park End?Did they omit to inform the referee? Was it mentioned at all? If not, why not?
As an aside, Mike Dean on Sky said he would not have awarded a penalty because of the way Young reacted. So that’s a new one. The reaction of the player drives the decision, not whether an infringement has been committed?
Be interested in hearing you views on our conversation Peter
I think that the suggestion of using the protocols used in rugby is very sensible. The sooner,the better.The reason I want to see a transcript is that I am suspicious that Young’s theatrical going to ground influenced the behaviour of the VAR. See if you can find Mike Dean’s comment on Sky. He saw the view of the shirt pulling after the game and as much as said that Young’s fall made him undeserving of a penalty! “Not enough”!
Did the VAR officials react in the same way and withhold the footage from the referee?That would be scandalous if true.My view is, had the referee been made aware of that coverage, he would had seen a get out for him wrongly awarding the penalty for a foul by Maguire, which I understand was his first reasoning? I am convinced he would have upheld his initial call, albeit for a different reason, but of course he would never say that now.The referees union will close ranks. In the first instance Howard Webb MUST release the recording of the discussion between the officials.Thousands like myself in the Park End saw the shirt pulling and we all assumed that is why the referee gave it.
I enjoyed listening.My personal memory of games against MU was the 5-0 in 1984. We were simply imperious. I remember the late ,great Joe Mercer, who was watching, saying it was some of the finest football he had ever seen.
Hi Paul, I’m going to talk reality because I’m furious. 😡😂🤣😂
As a temporary arrangement until such time as they do get their act together, and certainly by the time the euros come to BMD we need to face this issue with a practical head.
Right now, we park our car on the wasteland adjacent to Bullens Rd, so it’s right on top of the ground. It holds by my best estimate 400 ish cars or more. It’s really hard to give you a firm figure because the cars aren’t allocated a space, they are packed in (within reason) and a shout out to the staff than run it, they are excellent. It costs £20. It’s a privately owned area so it’s not compliant with any regs but it works and works well. If you had a car parked on it and had to get away during a match you are stuffed but that’s a risk everybody accepts.
That car park is always full and they turn people away all the time. We arrive early (usually 1 1/2 before the game) and it’s usually full well before kick off. The vehicular and walking traffic management before a game is generally very good and largely looks after itself under the steady gaze of police, club stewards and the car park staff I mentioned. Remember – this is yards from the ground. It also shares access to EFC’S own parking for its “special guests”, home team players vehicles and away team coaches arriving to drop them off under police escort.
I’ve never witnessed an incident, accident or dispute over right of way, access or potential risk. That’s not to say it hasn’t or doesn’t happen, but it’s certainly not common place and I’ve never seen anything to cause me distress.
This arrangement has grown over decades, it’s no doubt developed a life of its own and learnt from past mistakes. The club does tweak their own part of this from time to time and occasionally a new senior police match officer makes tweaks too. By and large it works extremely well and remember – this is land adjacent to Bullens Rd, next to the ground, Walton Lane dual carriageway and 1000’s of people on foot.
So you have to get there early and everybody that uses it knows that you have to stay late. Nothing leaves this car park until the exiting walking traffic has dissipated which includes away fans, local traffic management from the council and the emergency support vehicles have left. That’s usually 20-30 mins after final whistle. Occasionally, like Liverpool or United it might take a little longer. I can categorically tell you that the congestion leaving Goodison is far far worse than what I took part in leaving the BMD test event. Remember BMD is trying to create an atmosphere where people want to stay longer after matches too.
My point to all of this is simply that it has found its own level that doesn’t result in death or injury and allows for every sort of vehicle traffic, foot traffic and football business to carry on regardless.
As a time served emergency worker – I can see this works and works well. With some common sense and planning, any part of that enormous land between Nelson Dock back towards the Pierhead, could be utilised in a similar and even safer fashion. A proper car park on Peel Land that closes well before the masses start to arrive on match days and doesn’t open until they have largely left is a real option and actually deals with the issue head on. Get there early and leave late. People would still use it – guaranteed.
There are also car parks at Walter St & the NCP at the Tai Pan Chinese restaurant on Great Howard St which collectively take about 450-500 cars too. They just have to sign post them both properly. Those collective options plus parking further out in Liverpool One & Bootle and walking or catching a shuttle bus etc would be a temporary solution to what will be an enormous problem.
A circular traffic route to leave the area by designated roads whilst other road restrictions remain in place would ensure it’s done efficiently as possible. It just needs putting back on the agenda. I’m sorry but quoting London with its public tax paid for underground and overground system and comparing that with Liverpool is not a credible comparison. Liverpool has never had a viable local system since the overhead railway was brought down. How we now long for that!! We can’t even match Manchester and its tram system because the cost and time would be too enormous and judging by that debate with Steve Rotherham – it isn’t going to happen. How small minded the approach to this has been by everybody is an issue that needs to be debated properly. This entire area needs massive investment and that starts with infrastructure and town planning. You don’t wait for the horse to bolt before you shut the door.
I would point out that they have utterly ignored the relatively cheap option of completing the footpath that runs along the riverside from Albert Dock to where it abruptly stops just north of the new Ferry terminal. It can’t be more than 1000 yards or so and takes you right up to the WEST stand steps of BMD This would seriously change the way people leave the new ground by east and west exits on foot and would dramatically ease the approach and dissipation of fans on Regent Road and allow for a very pleasant walk to and from the city centre underneath the old riverside clock tower. That is utter madness.
Without a proper plan from Day One, Liverpool can’t afford to push the “active travel” or as we might know it – walking option, without also catering for others that might have already travelled extensively by car to reach the city in the first place. It’s just ignoring the nose on your face!
There isn’t one answer, they simply have to create a better travel plan that incorporates every option, and all sides need to stop making it a political football (excuse the pun).
Regards
Keith
I’m going to make a simple observation on the pen. I believe Young did exaggerate things with his fall. In isolation, this gives the on field ref a decision to make. Again in isolation, the VAR mob (this is what was explained on the stream commentary) they asked the ref to concentrate on the angle that showed Young exaggerating his fall. Again in isolation, that might be legitimate to rule out the pen BUT BUT, they did not look at the shirt pulls. Unfortunately catch 22 I don’t think the ref blows for a pen if Young stays on his feet. However would the VAR mob have given us a pen for the shirt pulls? (Probably not). That’s the unfairness of the situation. It should have been a pen. The ex player pundits always talk about players being “entitled to go down” when they have been brushed and in a lot of cases not even touched. Same clowns running VAR give pens for that don’t they?
Has the stream commentary been made public?
Couldn’t answer that sorry I’ve not seen anything on twitter.