Paul: Good morning, good afternoon or good evening, depending upon where in the world you are. In what time of the day you’re listening to this post Brighton, Talking the Blues Podcast.

.George and Andy, how are you both?

Andy & George: Pretty good, mate.

Paul:  Good. And, well, two successive victories for the first time this season. And I think the first time this season that we scored goals in successive games as well. So, yeah, tell us. 

George: or rampaging zero at all. 

Paul: Who ever said that life under Moyes would be boring? 

Andy: Let’s just rewind a couple of episodes. 

Paul: Yeah. 

George: to you Paul, give us your match report because normally me and Andy go banging on about things but you were there man and 

Paul: Okay, I was thinking about this and half anticipated you asking me. And I suddenly realized I see how difficult it is, and what a great job Andy’s done over the years, both in terms of his written reports but also his, you know, his verbal reports on Talking the Blues because…..

 Not that I practiced it I didn’t but I am just totally hopeless at this type of thing. 

Because they just had a thoroughly good day out. It was a lovely day. I was with friends and the atmosphere was great. Amongst Evertonians, lots of enthusiasm, lots of anticipation before the game, such a difference.

 Well, this is this okay this is my match before such a difference in terms of the state of mind of the away support, most of whom were people who would have been at the Ipswich game and the Tottenham game that I went to earlier earlier this season, and I spent a good part of the game sort of comparing how everybody was feeling and how everybody was looking with, with those two games.

Obviously the Ipswich game we won. But it was, you know, a terrible performance by Ipswich and the Tottenham game, while we were, we were obviously never in the game at all. 

So, To go into the Brighton game and obviously Brighton on a very decent run. And still to have a lot of anticipation and a lot of hope. And people are actually looking forward to the game.

I met some friends in a pub before the game and there were quite a lot of Evertonians in there. And there was just a really great atmosphere and getting into the ground sort of 20 minutes or so before kickoff, again in the concourses and then out in the stadium itself. 

And a really super atmosphere just people, you can, you can see that people are actually, and it’s very early days and I know we can’t get too carried away. 

And you can see people actually enjoying going to the game again, not just for the reasons of, you know, meeting friends and doing something that you’ve done perhaps in many cases for like 10, 15, 20, 30 years or more. 

People are actually looking forward to seeing an Everton team play. The game itself wasn’t a great game, obviously. And, you know, there wasn’t a huge amount of excitement about Everton’s play.

But if you contrast the way we approached the game yesterday with how we might have approached the game had Dyche’s still been in the dugout. You know, light years apart, we actually played some quite, I thought we played some quite reasonable football. 

And okay, there were occasions when we hit the ball long and Pickford hit the ball on a couple of occasions. But for many parts of the match, we actually kept the ball on the pitch. And, you know, we built from the back and we had periods where we actually passed the ball around quite nicely.

 And I think this idea of having three centre backs, obviously, it’s like a hybrid situation, but really, really suits us. And O’Brien, I mean, what on earth is going through Dyche’s mind? And this is not going to be a Dyche knocking session. But what on earth was going through his mind when he thought that this kid wasn’t ready for Premier League football? 

Paul: I don’t know, because, you know, it’s early in his career, but he looks a class act and he wasn’t out of place. And he is a different player, obviously, from our other two centre backs, but he just slotted in very, very nicely. Took a bit of time to adjust in the first 15, 20 minutes or so. And I think he wasn’t getting a huge amount of support in front of him from Jesper in the first part of the game.But Gueye moved over a little bit from his more central position, a little bit further right and off of that support. And after about 15 minutes or so, he didn’t really ever look challenged, in my opinion. And as the game went on, he just grew more and more comfortable. And in the first half, most of the action was down Brighton’s left, which is our right, which is sort of just in front of where I was sitting or standing and yeah, it’s great. Don’t know what more to say, really.

 We obviously look different when Beto came on after DCL’s injury. And Beto, and I know you both have your own opinions in the minute on Beto, Beto doesn’t appear to have the necessary qualities to be a successful Premier League player, but nobody at all can criticise his attitude or his desire to do what he had to do for the team.

 And, you know, he was rewarded with the support of the fans, but also the support of the players. And I think, you know, jumping ahead, the great, the end of the game was fantastic, obviously, but the greatest thing was to actually see, and, you know, I’m a big David Moyes fan, but the greatest thing was actually to see David Moyes going around and hugging every one of the players. And thanking them for their contribution to the day. And that is just so far removed from anything that we’ve seen for such a long time. It was wonderful. 

Andy: Oh, all right, I will go now. 

Paul: Now we can have a good professional report from Andy. 

Andy: No, I wouldn’t say it’s professional by a long shot, but I watched the game yesterday, and you said the way the team, or what the approach to the game was against what the approach would have been under Dyche. Personally, I don’t think the approach was a million miles different from what Dyche would have had them do.

 I think the difference, and the big difference for me is that I think they’ve bought into very quickly the way that Moyes wants them to play. 

And I thought Moyes on the touchline was pretty calm and reserved most of the time. Like the elder statesman school teacher watching his boys go about their work, having told them exactly, and in words of one syllable, how he wanted them to go about the work that he sent them out to do, which they did.

 It wasn’t great to watch in terms of entertainment value, but in terms of a professional job well done, and a game plan devised, implemented, and stuck to, it was 10 out of 10.Not great entertainment value, but at the end of the day, we’re the visitors. It’s up to Brighton to try and entertain the vast majority of the fans, and it’s up to Everton as the visitors to go out there and do a job to nullify them. And if we can pinch something, because we are still in the stages of pinching games rather than going out with a swagger knowing we’re going to blow people away, we got the job done in almost exemplary fashion. 

And if I turn to Beto, we’ve all seen Beto come on for 10 minutes at the end of the game, under doubt, or maybe if he’s been lucky, he’s had 20 minutes towards the end of the game, and he’s looked lost, he’s looked clumsy, he’s looked lethargic at times, and I think the difference was yesterday he had 77 minutes, and he obviously, when he went on the lifeboat, I’d rather try and save this ship, he went out there to become part of a team. 

And he played as a team member, and his work ethic, as you said, was terrific yesterday. He didn’t get a great deal of service, he didn’t have a great deal of opportunity to impress himself on the Brighton defence. But having said that, he kept going, and he kept going, and he kept going. 

And I think you’re right, I mean, he’s never going to strike fear into the very best defenders in the division, never in a month of Sundays. But as against the teams, if you like, from places eight downwards, he can ruffle feathers, if he’s given long enough to get into the game. And yesterday he had long enough to get into the game, and he did ruffle a few feathers on the few occasions he got forward, particularly late on in the game, which was impressive.Because, you know, it would have been very easy for Moyes to say, right fellas, 10 men behind a ball. 

Nobby, you’re up front on your own pal, if anything comes your way, do what you can. And he’s stuck at it. And he, you know, he had that chance late on where he put the shot wide at the near post, maybe he could have gone across goal, maybe he could have looked up and maybe, you know, played it across the face of the goal. 

Andy: But he’s been up there all on his own for 77 minutes. And he’s quite entitled to have a shot in my opinion.I actually thought the lad performed really well yesterday. And if he got, if he got a great reception from the fans, which it sounded like he did, then he deserved it. 

And if he’s going to be, you know, if we if we’re not able to recruit another forward in this window, which would probably affect his confidence again, but if he gets to start now in the next three or four games, you know, till DCL gets over his hamstring straight and it might well be longer, we know, you know, hamstrings are one of those things that can cure quickly and can take time. but if he’s going to be if he’s going to get the start and he surely will in the next game then that will only do his confidence the world are good and he might just begin to grow on us he’s never he’s not thoroughbred we know that and deep in his heart of hearts i’m sure he knows he’s not thoroughbred but if we need a mongrel and he was going to run his socks off and work his work his backside off then that strikes me that that’s the type of player he is and you know while DCL’s out we’ve got to we’ve got to give him that chance well he’s going to get the chance um and he didn’t let anybody down yesterday in any way shape or form but his effort was his effort was exemplary um some of his first touch actually wasn’t bad there was a couple of clumsy clumsy moments but at the end of the day it was his persistence that won us that penalty

Paul: Yeah, very much so. To be fair to him, I don’t think his confidence was down at all. I think he knew what, he had a clear idea of what he’d been told he had to do. And he did it.And I mean, he said this about the whole team, but one of the big differences between him in yesterday’s game, as against previous games, was that he really harried the defence. And you know, it’s sort of that old maxim in football, isn’t it, about, you know, you defend from the top of the pitch, not from the bottom of the pitch. 

And, you know, that was really one of, I think, looking back on Dyche, one of Dyche’s biggest problems, that he gave up so much possession and so much territory, and, you know, to, as he used to call it, defend the V around our own penalty box, where it was very clear yesterday that, you know, we were defending very high up the pitch from, you know, DCL and DCL was on the pitch, but certainly when Beto was on, I thought he did an excellent job. 

And I think, again, just, I think I’m only qualified to talk in general terms, as against specifics in terms of tactics, because that’s not really what I watch. But I thought it was, in many cases yesterday, an example of age and experience in terms of the managers, overcoming the problems that were set within the game itself. And I thought it was a masterclass from Moyes in terms of game management, tactical management, you know, substitutions.

And, you know, the Brighton manager, but what’s his name, Hursler, he’s only 31. He’s obviously got a great future ahead of him. But not that it’s insane, but I suspect he will have learned an awful lot about managing a football team with limited resources. Yesterday watching Everton and watched Moyes in particular. 

I thought it was a real, it was a real masterclass. And, you know, you could see in the post match interviews, and Moyes pride in the performance. Yeah, obviously. But also, and it’s very rare for David Moyes to do this, isn’t it? And pride in his own achievement, the fact that he’s now managed 700 Premier League games. Yeah.

 And you know, that puts him up there. I think they don’t. Yeah, only Wenger and Ferguson. 

Andy: That’s right. 

Paul: Ahead of him. And, you know, rather silly question, I suppose, to ask, when the interviewer asked him whether or not he ever thought that he would, when he first started in the game, would he ever get to seven hundred games? Well, you know, very few young people would think in that way. But you could see that Moyes was intensely proud of the fact that he’s got there.And I think on the evidence of the short period that he’s been at the club, he’s still got an awful lot to offer. And yes, we are in an age where managers are tending to get younger and younger and younger. 

But I suspect Moyes’ knowledge of the game and Moyes’ ability and willingness to develop his own management style is going to stand him in great stead. Because whilst as much as you could say, and you know, and I did say early on, he’s like rolling the clock back 15 years. And this is a very different David Moyes from the David Moyes of 15 years ago. 

The characteristics within the performance were very similar. And he’s obviously much more mature as a person. And he’s clearly very comfortable being back at the club, the club that he’s always loved, the club that he’s loved since he joined us on the first occasion. And I think that was demonstrated yesterday, right? As you say, the calmness that he showed on the stage later. 

Andy: Well, I mean, there’s a huge difference between the Moyes of 15 years ago and the Moyes of yesterday Because he was always an arm waver and you know, very specific about where you want your players to be in? Positionally whereas yesterday he looked He looked so much more whether whether it’s calmer or reserved or professional and But a man who knows exactly what he told them to do And they were doing exactly what he told them to do.

So there was no need for any way I’m waving and histrionics and Yelling and shouting and when there was a stoppage, you know when DCL got hurt when when Gana Gueye got hurt um

 Whatever he was having a quiet word with various different players about you know Little adjustments to make and this that and the other and the other thing was as soon as soon as he made the double substitution um when young and Patterson came on It was very clear that he told them to exactly what he wanted them to to pass on To the other players because both of them were you know Um very forthright and what they were what they were passing on when they came on the pitch and I thought to myself that’s you know, he’s he’s entrusted them to take his message out there and deliver it in the way he would have done had to you know had it been half time in the in the changing room? and and for once You know i’ll say for once but something that’s um Not always been prevalent.

Shall we say in recent years? Is that when we made substitutions? They were seamless The two players came off two players went on and we carried on there was no there was no buffer if you like of five minutes of well, well, we adjust ourselves and get used to and we didn’t give Brighton a chance if you like to take advantage of it of the change In formation because the formation a didn’t change and the players who came on seamlessly replaced those that went off and I thought I thought that was a huge difference between um The previous regime and and Moyse now

Paul: Yeah, I think that’s a fair point, Andy. I think Patterson looked a little shaky when he first came on, but then settled down. But generally, I think your points are spot on.

I mean, just like just running through the team before we get to the substitutes. I mean, there wasn’t really a bad performance. You can be critical of Doucoure and his limitations and stuff, but… He did what he had to do yesterday. Yeah, he can’t say he had a bad game because he didn’t. 

Andy: No, I think Moyesy prepares them collectively and individually better. And that’s because he’s got wider experience than Dyche.You know, as a vastly experienced manager, but he’d been a long, long time at Burnley.

 Whereas Moyesy, to be fair to him, you know, he had a long time with Osprey and he went to Old Trafford where, you know, things didn’t go well for him. And a lot of people never genuinely expected it to go well for him. And following Ferguson was always going to be a big ask for whoever replaced him.

 But then he’s moved on again, you know, he’s with Sunderland, he’s managed in Spain, and then, you know, West Ham. He’s got a wider perspective of the game, if you like, from his travels in management. And I just think that all those points will benefit Evert and certainly in the short term. And I said the way he set them, just the way he set them up yesterday, I don’t think it was massively different to what Dyche would have done, other than the defending higher up the pitch, which I completely agree with. 

Paul: Well, I’d like to know how you saw it George?

 George: Pardon? Thank you. No, no. 

Andy: No, I actually mean the game plan rather than the team selection part, there was still an element of right, let’s sit back, let’s soak it up and try and hit him on the break, which is understandable.

 But I just think it was better organised, the plan was better thought through and it was way better implemented because I think the players have cottoned on very quickly, hang on a minute, this guy knows what he’s doing. You know, if he tells us he wants us to play this way, I think they’re looking at him and saying, you know, he knows what he’s doing. Let’s, you know, let’s take notice of this guy more than we did the previous fella.

Because there were times when you, there were times before when you wondered whether they actually really understood what Dyche’s had been banging onto him about, I think they clearly understand what Moyes is banging on about. I know it’s only early doors and as you said, we shouldn’t get carried away. But we’ve beaten Spurs and beaten them and should have beaten them more than we should have done, truth be told. But that’s, you know, let’s not get overly picky.

 But then we’ve gone to Brighton, where many people, you know, a lot of people admire the way Brighton play football. I mean, they’ve not had a great great record at home in recent weeks. But I mean, they went to Old Trafford last week, from United, which was highly entertaining. And we’ve completely nullified them.

 And in the end, I think we deserve, we deserve to win because how many saves did Pickford make yesterday? There you go. So we’ve, you know, we’ve gone, we’ve gone the length of the country. We’ve won. We’ve kept them to one shot. All right, how many did we have? We only had one shot on target, but it was a pen and we scored. Job done. 

Paul: George, your opinions. 

George: You know, my opinion was it was one of the worst football games I’ve ever watched. They were completely unambitious. I was embarrassed. I was bored.

And then we get a ludicrous penalty and got anything to do with or just some clown making a bollocks of something. And we smack it in the corner of the net and we win. Brilliant. So Moyesiah is back. You know, it’s a pragmatic, a pragmatic situation and the ultimate pragmatist is there. I think you’re right, both of you.

 The difference is that he’s told them to put the ball on the ground and not the air. And obviously the football players are enjoying it.

I’m pleased that Patterson got a bit more time on the pitch and I think he should be starting there. And maybe he will, if Mangala is out. And the question I had for you was, are we really playing a back three? Because I thought we’re playing a back four and that O’Brien is playing right back, isn’t he? But you said a back three, Paul. Oh, yeah, I think it doesn’t really matter. 

Andy: I think O’Brien is ostensibly a centre-art, but he’s played right- 

Paul: No, I mean, you’re right, George. And in fact, you know, Moyes himself has said, hasn’t he, that quite often the way for a centre-back, a young centre-back to get into a team is to play full-back for a while. 

George: Well, I’m hugely encouraged that the era of first pick Ashley Young is over with no disrespect to him. I have learnt to respect that man, but O’Brien looks like a much better idea. 

Paul: Yeah, I mean, O’Brien is doing for Moyes what I think, um, Jonny Lescott did, because when Jonny Lescott came into the Moyes site for the first time, he played for that, didn’t he? 

Andy: Yeah. 

George: And he always makes defenders better. He understands it properly. 

Paul: Well, he’s said on a number of occasions already, hasn’t he, that when he started his career at Celtic, he was a centre-half, but he started as a fullback. Or he was made to play as a fullback in the first instance. 

George: He knows what he’s doing and O’Brien has a lot of high set pieces defensively and offensively. 

Paul: Yeah, but he’s good on the ball, you know, in the same way, the same way that we’ve talked about Branthwaite, you know, I think Branthwaite has got a little less certain, when he steps out with with the ball, there’s a slightly greater tendency for him to give the ball away than perhaps it was last season.

 But O’Brien looks so comfortable on the ball.And I think he’s quite quick, or he’s deceptively quick, as you know, as well. But there’s so many, it’s interesting that people say, and they always, I always respect your views on football, because you know, so much more about football than I do.

 And, but there were so many differences between the Everton of yesterday and the Everton of Dyche’s era, in my opinion, collectively, but also individually, you know, I think Tarkowski looked more like his old self. For example, Branthwaite was imperious. 

Tarkowski, actually, to be fair, he gave the ball away a couple of times in the first half with a couple of sloppy passes that didn’t lead to anything. But I thought he looked good. Obviously, we talked about O’Brien. 

Mykolenko is clearly being influenced by Leighton Baines. And he’s looking at a much more positive, much more positive contributor to the side. And that’s great. Still some concerns about his defensive abilities. 

But, you know, I think he is contributing more whether or not he’s the long term solution or not is, you know, open to debate, but he’s there at the moment.And he’s a better player under Moyes than he was at any time in the Dyche era. 

That’s a big tick in the box. But then, you know, when you look at midfield, we’ve really struggled in midfield for years, haven’t we? And, yeah, I think about that, the Tottenham game, which was the first away game I mentioned this year. You know, midfield was nonexistent that day. And Mangala, ball over it. Yeah. Well, we didn’t have the ball that often. But when we did, that’s all we did. Yeah, you’re absolutely right. And, you know, possession just went back into the hands of or into the arms of Tottenham. 

But I thought Mangala was fantastic yesterday and obviously until he was injured.

And Ghana Gueye is 35 or 36 now? I think he’s 36, isn’t he? Just was purring like a Rolls-Royce. I mean, he just oozed. I thought he, I mean, I just thought he oozed class yesterday. He just controlled midfield. And again, you know, critics of Ghana Gueye were saying in the past, you know, it’s been situations about his career, that he’s somebody that either gives the ball away cheaply at times, or perhaps commits a foul in dangerous positions for the opposition. And they would be the criticism. I think fair criticisms of the way that he plays generally. 

But when he’s on his game, like he was yesterday, he was fantastic. I mean, he mopped up so many situations, he showed for the ball all the time, made himself available. And I think a lot of people fail to recognize actually, when he’s allowed to, he’s got a really good eye for a pass. And, you know, he was, he was, I thought he, I thought he was spectacular yesterday. 

He really, really, really was good. Doucoure was Doucoure. Ndiaye I would talk about for as long as you like. I mean, what a, what a fine this guy is. You know, he’s a really classy footballer. And I suppose it’s wrong to make comparisons with past players, but he’s another Steven Pienaar in the making, but possibly an even better player than that. 

And if he turns out to be a better player than Steven Pienaar, then, you know, he’s going to give us great service in the years ahead. And from my perspective, he’s got everything. Don’t know what your view is on. 

George: I think that one of the other changes that Moyes has made is that Ndiaye is much nearer the centre of the pitch, where he’s going to do a great deal more damage than wandering about at that point.

 I mean, he’s clearly got, you know, the freedom to move, but the more he comes inside, the better.I mean, you know, the big problem will be now is can he and can anybody, and I fully endorse everything the pair of you said about Beto, can he play with Beto? 

We’re certainly going to find out unless there’s some serious shopping before the Leicester game. 

Paul: That’s the challenge now, isn’t it, both for Beto, for Moyes to make Beto, if you can, a better player, and for the people around him to help him out. 

Andy: Well, this will be the first real chance that Beto has had to stake a claim to be the starting centre forward. He’ll never get a better chance while he’s at Everton, you know, while DCL’s hurt. He’s got the chance to stake a claim. 

I mean, a hat-trick against Leicester would go a long way to give him a longer run at the top.But he’s, you know, he’s always, he’s just been a sovereign. He’s never really been given the chance. And, you know, I said before, he’s not a thoroughbred, you know, ideally, you know, I mean, you know, you’d want someone with a bit more poise and finesse about them, but that’s not him. So Moyes is Moyes and is experienced enough to figure out that, right, you know, we can’t, we can’t make a silk purse out of a pig’s ear. Well, I mean, that’s probably been a little bit unkind, but you know what I’m saying? It’ll devise a way to play that will probably suit Beto’s attributes of his physicality. 

Paul: And Beto has to play facing the opposition’s goal. He’s not a player that you can play the ball up to and you can back into the defence and then hold the ball up under the ball. 

Andy: No, we put the ball in front of him and let him run at defenders. 

Paul: Yeah and then it becomes a threat for sure. 

Andy: Yeah, because he’s a totally different kettle of fish, because he’s the type of player that if you get in his way, he’s just going to run over you. He’s just going to steamroller over people, because he is much more physical in his approach than DCL.

DCL’s got that little bit more finesse and tact about him, but give him the service and give it to him in the right area, and that’s always going to worry people. He’s going to put it like this, no defender is going to have an easy afternoon against him, if we play him to the best of his ability, which is going forward with the ball in front of him. 

Paul: I thought you were just unlucky with that chance that you mentioned earlier, Andy. 

Andy: Yeah, the one late on. 

Paul: Yeah, like later on when he sort of cut inside to the left hand side of the box, and the physical effort that he made to get into that position holding off the defenders. To be honest, I think he just ran out of energy by the time he hit the ball and that’s why he hit the ball wide of the near of the near post, when perhaps you’re right and you’re pulling the ball across the goal might have been a better option

.But to me it just looked like he just basically ran out of energy. And perhaps had he got into that position earlier on in the game, then there might have been a better result. He just looked as if he just ran out of energy when he hit the ball. 

Andy: But the encouraging thing was that was late in the game and he was still ready to give it a go

Paul: Yeah. And the reception he got for that particular move, even though he obviously shot wider and he shot wider than they opposed, which is a bit of a cardinal sin for a sense of forward. There were no complaints in the crowd.You know, when he got up, everybody was like, you know, shaking their fist and like, you know, come on better carry on. And you could see that he appreciated that.

 Yeah. There was a, there was a great, I mean, obviously, everything fans are always great. But there has been a distance between the club, the manager, and at times the team and the fan base. And I don’t say that as somebody who’s not been to, obviously, to every game because we’ve been to more games this season than I have for many years. 

But that’s only for that relationship is definitely back. You know, there was a togetherness from the bench to the team to the fans behind the goal. Yes. Which was fantastic. Fantastic. Fantastic to experience. Fantastic to see. 

And I bumped into John Blaine and his wife, half time. And we had quite a pleasant chat. And I made the point that Moyes gets Everton. And he knows the Everton way, not in that daft romantic Everton way that Kenwright used to espouse. 

But in the real Everton way, the way that supporters feel about the football club, not, and I stress not the Kenwright way. And that to me, yes, they were just so, so evident. And I think that’s why he feels so good and looks so comfortable in the role already. 

Now, obviously, over time, the newness of me coming back might wane and results are not going to go the way they’ve got every game so far. You know what, they’re not going to go with that. That way in the future is going to be more difficult times ahead for sure, because we’re not anywhere near the completed article. We’re not anywhere near as competitive as we need to be. And we’re not anywhere near challenging at the top of the table, which is where we need to be. And I think we all recognize that. 

But, you know, anybody who’s listened to the three of us talk for a number of years, has to recognize and will recognize the difference in the club in just a few weeks. You know, the takeover, the firing of a new old manager coming in. The change is just immense. We’re a different club. 

Andy: In music today as well. 

Paul: Yeah, I mean, we needed to be a different club a long time earlier than we’ve been becoming. But we are a completely different club.And, you know, the pride of, I don’t think anybody was ever not proud of being an Evertonian. But the pride in being an Evertonian, from my perspective, at least, I’m not going to be talking about myself, obviously, is back and it’s there in state. Great. That’s why I think that’s why I enjoyed it so much yesterday. Thank you. 

George: Yeah, that sounds great. 

Paul: And again, respect your views, George, I’m not sure it was the worst game of football I’ve ever seen. But I can understand, perhaps it was like one of those occasions when you had to be there. 

George: Yeah, yeah. 

Paul: I mean, that with the greatest respect to the thousands, obviously the one but, yeah. 

George: to. 

Paul: I think the point about Brighton is an interesting one. The fact that it was their responsibility to come on and entertain.And they did look like a threat, didn’t they, in the first 15 minutes, particularly down their left-hand side, where they overloaded. But once we’d worked out how to deal with that, I think Lindstrom had a slow start for the game and then became much better, particularly when Ghana sort of moved over a little bit to help support him. They just ran out of ideas very quickly. And whilst, particularly in the second half, they dominated a lot of possession and they dominated a lot of territory, never ever really felt like we were close to conceding a goal. 

Andy: No, not once. Not once that that was a very pleasing aspect of, you know, watching it from the armchair is that, you know, there’ve been times when we’ve been in a situation like that. And you think, maybe this is it, this is where it comes. Didn’t get that feeling at all yesterday, you know, and I think I think that’s I think that, again, that’s credit to Moyes that once we’ve got his nose in front, albeit from a penalty, you know, we’re in front and we’re going to stay in front, that’s it.

And it was, you know, come hella high water this lot, we’re not going to get an equalizer. And you’re right, there was never any real time when you thought, oh dear me, this is it, this is where we could see, even when they got three kicks in and around the box, you know, the players just looked karma, knew exactly where they were going to position themselves or whatnot, all right, they’ve got picked at the back yelling, tell them where to go, this, that and the other.

 But this, every time they set up, they set up well. And the fact that JP didn’t have any saves today is tantamount for that. That’s a testament that defensively, we were, you know, as good, if not better, that we were under Dyche because we weren’t bad defensively under Dyche. What was the best word from my perspective would be, it was composure about the team yesterday. 

Paul: Oh, right. Cool. And that there was an awful lot more. Obviously, we were good defensive units on Dyche as our opening of the record shows in terms of number of goals conceded, we conceded very few goals, especially very few goals relative to our position in the league.

 But a lot of it under Dyche was elastic blocks, fantastic saves by Pickford. We’ve talked about it endlessly.

How many times did Pickford keep us in the game? How many times did a Tarkowski block? Because we used to concede so many shots, particularly shots around the edge of the penalty area, if you recall, under Dyche. 

Again, very early days, and obviously a very small sample in the games where Moyes has been manager. But there’s much more organization, much more structure about our defense. So that last ditch element seems to be less prevalent than it was. 

I thought the way that we defended the corners was really excellent, yes, because the quality of the Brighton corners, generally speaking, was excellent. They floated a couple of long balls. Everything starts at the back post and made nothing of them. But a lot of their corners were, if you compare them to the corners that Everton have done in recent years, a lot of their corners were relatively quick, flat balls to the near post. 

I think apart from one flick on that they got in the second half, it’s that thing about being the first man for the ball. We dealt with it expertly. I thought, from that point of view, we were excellent. The other interesting thing was I thought Young was excellent when he came on. 

Andy: Yeah. Well, it’s like our kid said before, you know, I mean, he was a long, long, long way down the list of players of being our kid with a sign that he was brought in. And to a large extent, he’s done a very, very good job when he’s pulled on the blue shirt. You know, but I think, I think we all know that really, he got the starting role because he was dited, made from it from their what the date, you know, two or three light years ago.

And now, now he’s probably been told, look, Ash, I’m not I’m not going to start yet. I’m going with Jake, and maybe maybe even Nathan. But you’re still an integral part of this squad, you’ve got an awful lot of experience. And you can play in a number of positions. I suspect that, and I’m probably wrong on this, but it wouldn’t surprise me. If Moyes has said to him, look, you know, you are going to be my Alan Harper, my Kevin Richardson. 

You’re not going to start very often. But when you come on, you’re going to have a role to play. And I’ve got absolute confidence that you’re going to be able to play it. And I think 38 Young probably thought that’ll do for me boss. 

Paul: That’s a very good point, Andy. I hadn’t considered it in those terms, but you’re absolutely right. 

Andy: Well, it’ll suit it as you know, his age, it will suit him. I mean, obviously, he’s a professional footballer, and he’s clearly in good physical condition. So his natural instinct will be, well, I want to play every game and I want to play 90 minutes, but then common sense will settle into his mind and he’ll say, no, no, if this guy’s going to use me, you know, and he’s, you know, he’s not going to, he’s not going to ostracise me and send me on my way before the end of the month, then I can live with this at my age. 

And his experience alone will be crucial, I think.And plus the fact, I mean, without being, without being silly about it, the less time he’s on the field, the less chances of picking up a yellow card, which he has been prone to do. Because the last thing we need is for the utility player to be banned. But I think, I think, I think there’s a, I think there’s a role there under Moyes and it really wouldn’t surprise me if Moyes has already had that chat with him, you know, and said, Look, don’t get the ump that you’re not going to get that you’re not going to be on the starting 11. 

You’re going to be on the bench. But trust me, you will, you will be used, and you will be used in a role that you can more than adequately fill. And as an experienced professional, he will accept that I’m convinced of it in the old mind.And if you’re listening, Ashley, and I’m talking to me backside, do feel free to join us on Talking the Blues and tell us exactly what you want to do. Invites, invites a gimbal. 

Paul:  Oh, they’re throwing out new fights every week, so, at some point somebody’s going to fight. 

Andy: Well take us up on these invites. 

Paul: Indeed. The one thing I would say about Ashley Young is that I hope when I get to his age, I can still run around like he can. 

Laughter…

George: Don’t we all? Leicester have beaten Spurs

Andy: Really? 

George: Yep. 2-1 at spurs. So I imagine Angie, Posto, whatever his name is. 

Andy: and I’ll see you later. 

George: He’s in his name. 

Andy: 

Yeah. His backside is going to be going to knit one, pearl two for the rest of today. Wow. Was that his first? Was that his first? 

Paul: Yep. 

Andy: Wow. 

Paul: Ona run beforehand, aren’t they? They are our next game, yes. 

Andy: Yeah. Are you going, Paul? 

Paul: No. No, I won’t be going. 

George:  And given the number of wins we’ve got with you watching. Three out of four. Three out of four is not bad. Three out of four is better than Moyesy. He’s only two out of three. 

Paul: Yeah. As tempting as it might be, no, I’ve said my goodbyes to Goodison and I won’t be there again this season, I don’t think. Well, no, I don’t think I won’t be there this season again. 

George: You away?

Paul: No, no, I mean, I’ve got a schedule for the rest of the year and 

George: What you do in the night, we play Liverpool. 

Paul: But I was offered a ticket for the Liverpool game and I had to turn it down, so I went to the Petersborough game and at the end of the game I stood and stayed and I was probably like one of the last people out on the ground because I thought, given what I given what I’ve got to do in the next few months, and where I’m going to be, I won’t be there again. 

So I stood and I was probably helping them sweep up at the end and just tried to soak it all in and take it all in like many, many, many, many people will be doing and in remaining games it’s highly emotional, it’s a highly personal moment because we’ve all got different experiences, we’ve all got different memories, we’ve all got different relationships with the ground and with the people that we’ve been to the ground with over the years and family members who’ve either played there or stood on the terraces.

One that we’re terraces and obviously it’s a magical place and it’s going to be. 

George: Oh, so different. It’s going to be rocky next Saturday when we stuff them Foxes. 

Paul: Yeah, I think it’s going to be fascinating to hear from, you know, the test events are about to start at Brown anymore. I think this is the first one. Is it the 17th of February? I think so. It’s what? Less than four weeks, about less than three, three weeks or so away.And everything under under 18s are playing Wigan under 18s, I think. And it’s going to be fascinating. And I think this is the 10,000 going. 

Andy: Yes, it’s less than 15 for the first one, but it’s more for the second one. 

Paul: It’s 10 for the first and only the south, I think only the south stand is open for that. Two things, it’s going to be fascinating to hear what people’s views are of the stadium once they get inside the stadium, albeit obviously the stadium on you being at 20% capacity. And for those people that do go to Everton’s new stadium at Bramley-Moore, it’s going to be fascinating to hear how they feel about Goodison Park when they go back to Goodison Park for the remaining games and whether or not their experience at Bramley-Moore changes their view of Goodison. That may or may not be the case, I don’t know about that.I think if I’d had the opportunity to go to Bramley-Moore and still then I had the opportunity to go back to Goodison afterwards, I think it would probably have had an impact on me. 

We talked a couple of weeks ago about the trip up to Goodison and the stadium tour that we did, or I did with other people. I said how much I enjoyed it and actually I had quite a number of emails from people saying exactly the same thing where they traveled maybe from overseas and gone to the stadium tour, taking their children, whatever, and the people who run the tour, how fantastic they were and everything else.

 But the one thing I’ve thought about a lot since, and I loved it and it was great and everything else, but the one thing that really struck me was how inappropriate Goodison is as a stadium in the modern game and how much as a club we had fallen behind the times in terms of Goodison still being our stadium. Does that make sense? I don’t think I’ve said it as well as I wanted to say it, but do you know the point I’m trying to make? 

George: How many, what percentage of the seats at Goodison have got a restrictive view? 

Andy: That’s a bigger percentage. 

George: Yeah, it’s ludicrous. You know, grand old lady. We’ve all had marvellous, marvellous, marvellous times there. Times up. Thanks very much. On we go. 

Paul: Yeah, I was thinking, actually, because it was the first time, genuinely, and a couple people have written to me saying, well, I’m really surprised by this. It was genuinely the first time that I’d ever seen behind the scenes because I’ve seen areas that you wouldn’t see, just as a general admission spectator.

 But I have been in other stages, both in the UK and around the world, behind the scenes, for different reasons. And to compare what, what Goodison offers and what other stadiums are under world offer. And I know that’s part of the episode charm and the episode experience and part of our competitive advantage at Goodison.But it’s also surely, it is also a competitive disadvantage in the sense that our players have to experience those facilities and have to make the best of those facilities when other teams have far greater facilities to use. 

And again, that’s possibly one of the great unknowns isn’t isn’t it about going to Brownie Moore. And obviously, the familiarity or aspect of it is going to be different. And it’s not Goodison. So we have to rebuild that relationship with our new home. But actually, the use of better facilities and all of Bramley-Moore will offer in comparison to Goodison, whether that actually produces a competitive advantage or not. 

Andy: You’d hope so wouldn’t you? You’d hope that when the team arrive on game day and you’ve got these plush new changing rooms and all the internal facilities and then they walk out into the bowl and you know there’s no pillars everyone’s got and all the fans have got a great view and everything you would hope that that would be an inspiration for them.

I mean I think more importantly is that Everton and for that matter any football club keeps up with the times with their training facilities because at the end of the day the players spend far more time at Finch Farm than you do at Goodison or they’ll spend far more time at Finch Farm than they will at Bramley More. So I think it’s important that as the game progresses and continues to evolve and everything that we don’t just focus purely on Bramley-Moore but whatever needs to be done to improve the facilities at Finch Farm to make things better for the players in their working environment because that is their working environment four or five days a week that’s where they go to train that’s where they get treatment etc etc that we mustn’t suddenly think that Bramley Moore is all the answer to our dreams because it isn’t you know the football club as a whole needs to evolve together whether that’s Finch Farm, Bramley More you know the Royal Liver buildings the people who work at Goodison wherever everything needs to continue to move forward Bramley Moore is a huge step for game day experience and it’s going to be a massive step for the fanbase obviously because that is our new home and that is where we will see Everton Football Club play its home football and it will be markedly different to Goodison but in terms of the long-term future and success of the club every single aspect now needs to continue to go forward in the way that Goodison will be surpassed by Bramley Moore and,

 I just think it’s important that we don’t get overly you know Bramley Moore will be great don’t get me wrong and I still personally feel it’s too small but that’s that’s a ship that sailed but I think it’s important that the powers that be don’t throw all the eggs in the Bramley Moore basket if you get the drift I just think the whole club needs to continue to rebuild and progress and evolve and that’s in every single area of the club and every single location of the club. 

Paul: Yeah, I totally agree with that, Andy. It has to be just part of the continued redevelopment of the club. 

George: Yeah. 

Andy: and 

Paul: And again. 

Andy: When Finch, the reason I’m saying is, when Finch Farm first opened, I was lucky, I went and did a tour of Finch Farm, and the facilities there were absolutely superb, absolutely brilliant. But then, you know, all the other clubs have built, if you like, for one of the better phrase, state-of-the-art training facilities, Spurs apparently, their training facilities are supposed to be outstanding, Leicester have got them, and everything.And I just don’t, all I’m saying is that, whatever new things come about in the involvement of the game of football, you know, be it sports, science, nutrition, whatever, that we mustn’t, you know, we have to keep pace. And if that means redevelopment and changes at Finch Farm and whatever, then the club need to do it. 

Don’t, let’s not get caught, you know, treading water again, as we have done for so many years. You’ve said it many times, Paul, you know, that Everton were one of the instigators of the Premier League, and when the Premier League started, we sat back and thought, oh, this is great, and everybody else went, whoa, health or leather, we can make a fortune out of this and build that and make our clubs bigger and stronger. We didn’t, that kind of beat up, hands behind the head, relaxed boys, let’s have a pull on the cigar, that cannot be the state of things going forward. If changes need to be made, I mean, whatever area, and as I said, whatever location for the club, then the club need to do it, because it’s all about making ourselves the best possible club we can be. 

George: 100% 

Paul: It’s interesting, as much of our history, certainly up to, actually probably up to the beginning of the Premier League in 1992, we were always considered to be innovators, we were always considered to be whatever firsts that were available in football. We were generally the people, the club that brought those firsts to football.If there was a development in the game, that development was often. In the first instance, led by everything, we have to get back to not just catching up with everybody else, but we have to go back to becoming at the forefront of development of football moving forward in every aspect of the game. 

Andy: Wherever it can go, all this follow needs to be demanded. 

Paul: Yeah. And that’s the big challenge for the Friedkins moving forwards. And anytime we tell whether they are able or willing to do that, I suspect they, I suspect they’re certainly willing to do that. And the proof will be whether they do or not, I suppose.

But here we are, we’re a few weeks into their own rain. We’re a few days into David Moyes’ rain and already things are looking better. 

Andy: Yep. Yeah. Yes, I don’t think anybody, I don’t think anybody can deny that.So long way, long way this process of rebuilding continues, it might be slow. But as long as, as long as we’re taking three steps forward, and no steps back rather than two steps forward and three steps back, let’s just go forward. We’ve got a marvelous history, but we shouldn’t . We should be about building a new history now, making a new history. 

Paul: Yeah, totally great. Can I finish on a slightly controversial topic? 

Andy: We’ve got on the top. Before you go into controversy, there was something that we forgot to mention last week and that we should do. 

And that was the sad passing of Dennis Lawler.He was… How to put it? Yes, he was a Man United player. And most people who listen to this know my and our kid’s feelings about Man United.

 But at the end of the day, Dennis Law was a wonderful, wonderful footballer. And I always said, if there was one player out of that late 60s Man United type who I would have loved to have seen in a blue shirt, you know, Charlton was Charlton. Bestie was the best. 

But the one, I think, who would have become as big a legend as any other player would have been, if Dennis Lawler had been a blue, that would have been fantastic. It was never going to happen. But what a wonderful footballer. And I think anybody who’s watched football from that era will have fond memories of Law, even though he was an opposition player for most people. But the way he played the game, he played with a swagger. But he was, to me, he was just one of, he was one of the all-time breaks without a shadow of a doubt. Without a shadow of a doubt. 

Paul: Which you will have seen in play. 

George: Lots of times one of the pleasures of living in Manchester was when I couldn’t get to Goodison, I would go with my United mates and watch him. He was magic, absolute magic. He knew where the crowd was, like Duncan Mackenzie. He knew that he was an entertainer and he was a great crack. Jules would tell you stories about them going carol singing around there and how generous he was and how kind and warm and, you know, great sense of humor. Wonderful, wonderful ambassador for the sport. Terrific bloke. No, no, no qualms about him. Nasty too. Could be a right nasty little bugger. 

Andy: Nobody took liberties with the law, man. 

George: You took him at a risk Andy, he could be vicious. He had a temper as well. And he was a sticky insect. We wore specs, you know, smoked 40 fags a day and he was the quickest thing you’ve ever seen. He was a unique, unique man.Just before we do go, bye bye Dennis. Catch us up on why Mykolenko is playing better, Andy. 

Andy: I mean this is going to sound completely and utterly ridiculous but I actually think that Michelenko is picking up more from Moyes than he ever picked up from Dyche and this is a weird thing but I mean a lot of people know that I used to be involved in ice hockey and back in the day we had three Ukrainian players playing for us in Manchester and we had a Scottish goalie and he had a very broad accent very broad he was from originally was I think he was from five north north of the fourth and he had a very strong Scots action and we used to wonder how would these Ukrainians get on with Colin and his accent and they all said that they could understand him better than they could understand the English players and the Canadians that we had playing in the side and it just made me think that maybe I told it sounded ridiculous but I’m going back to what what Ukrainian players told us about this Scottish goalie and it just made me think that maybe Mykolenko understands Moyes a little bit easier than he understood Dyche

Paul: And that’s certainly an interesting theory. 

Andy: If you’re listening, Vitaly, and you want to come on and tell us, please do. Just, you know, keeping up with throwing out the invites to you. 

Paul:  I enjoyed what both of you had to say about Dennis Law. The only thing I never saw him play live, at least memory-wise, I can’t recall ever seeing him play live, sort of on TV

George: Really?

Paul:  No, I never saw him playing live. 

George: You missed a treat. You did miss a treat. 

Paul: Yeah, I saw him on TV, that famous goal when Manchester City scored at Old Trafford. 

Andy: That’s actually the mark of the man. That’s the mark of the man that he played for both clubs and that goal sank the club where he really made his name but both sets of fans in Manchester revered him.That’s the mark of the man. 

Paul: Yeah, definitely. But I did meet him once. I met him at a dinner. And actually, for some bizarre reason, I ended up sitting next to him.

 And just let him talk. Just listen to him. Yeah, you don’t often get the chance to sit next to somebody like Dennis Law. So what canI  throw into the conversation that is going to be in any way meaningful? Nothing. 

And just give them on the stage and then talk and he talked and he talked and he talked. And it was wonderful. And he’s funny and he’s engaging. And he brought the people into the conversation. It wasn’t a monologue by any stretch of the imagination. And just a really, really super nice guy. And, you know, you know, there are a few occasions in life when you’re in the presence of greatness. And that was one of them. 

George: Yeah. I think that’s spot on, Paul. And, you know, Dennis used to get sent off. 

Andy: A week before Christmas. 

George: It was a documentary with him. It’s on YouTube, you must watch it.Interviewed with Graham Taylor? No, it’s not that bit, Andy. It’s him sitting by a coal fire in Aberdeen with his mum and dad laughing his head off that all the other players were out there shivering their bollocks off and he got himself sent off so he could have a good Christmas with his family. Oh, he was a dude. 

Andy: Yeah, that’s great. 

Paul: It’s out. 

Andy: The only Scotsman to win the Ballon d’Or. Is that right? Yeah. 

Paul: Wow, I didn’t know that. 

Andy: Not Kenny Dalglish. 

Paul: I was just going to say, wow, and at least didn’t didn’t win it either. 

Andy: There you go. 

Paul: Wow, incredible. 

George: That’s really interesting, because my brain went straight to, that’s a bit mean on Alan Hanson, who I thought was a fantastic football player. This is heading into sacrilege, isn’t it? 

Andy: Yeah, bringing them into it. 

Paul: when you consider all the great Scots that play it for others and I think it’s as I think we’re, we’re in dangerous territory. Sorry, sorry. 

George: I didn’t let that bit out, would you please? Being kind to Hansen, my God. 

Paul: Well, you’ll win nothing but kids. That’s what he’s most famous for.

Right. And I’m going to keep my point of controversy, because I don’t think we can, I don’t think we can end the podcast any better than we can do with the comments that you’ve both made about Dennis law. So

George: Start with controversy next week. 

Paul:  The controversial point will return. Anybody that’s read any of the stuff that I’ve written in recent days will probably know what the point is. And it’s a point that’s not going to go away anyway. So I will talk about it next week.Thank you both.

 I thought that was a really interesting conversation. Loved the end. Loved yesterday. Sorry that George is not quite as enthralled with the game as I was. 

Andy: Equally. 

George: If you’re not careful, I’ll send you my brother’s texts from the middle of the match. 

Paul: I did have a good laugh, actually, on the train coming back from Brighton, scrolling through the literally hundreds of messages from the two or three WhatsApp groups, including talking to blues WhatsApp group. And almost almost a man, woman and child, everybody had a different opinion on the game than I did. 

George: We won with a dodgy penalty, we played crap and we won. 

Andy: about that penalty. It was a definite handball 

George: Now, to say, because I never saw the blinking handball, because the illegal stream I was watching via Iraq, it wasn’t until you sent me a text going boom that I knew we’d scored. 

Andy: They’ve got a lot to answer for them, the Iraqis. 

George: I’m very grateful to those Iraqis. 

Paul: George, somebody did ask me, and I bumped into a number of people who know me yesterday, and somebody who knows obviously that we do Talking to Bruce did ask me at the end of the game, and did you have any views on Jordan Pickford’s time wasting yesterday? 

Andy: Bro, he turned his mic off. 

Paul: Don’t. 

Andy: He’s probably effing and Jeffing. 

George: Who, me? 

Andy: Yeah, what were your thoughts on J.P.’s time-wasting yesterday? 

George: And I didn’t know that, you know, I mean, I’m bored with time wasting, you know, but he’s how many red, how many yellow cards does he have this season? They’re all for the same thing. 

Andy: Yeah. 

George: I thought the most interesting part about the time wasting was that we were three minutes from the end and Mykolenko went down and O’Brien went down and the camera went to Moyes and Moyes was going “Get up it’s one minute to go”

He knew what they were doing and he just went no there’s no need to do that get off your arses and play the game properly a bit more of that would do me you know i’ve been saying stop the clock since we started doing talking the blues if if the referees allow uh pickford to fanny about that’s their own fault and if he gets a red card for it that’s his fault. what were your views on Jordan Pickford’s time wasting

Paul: I think you’ve said it all. I mean, it’s one of those weird things, isn’t it? It’s something that should be stamped out of the game completely.And therefore, you can’t, you can’t treat Jordan Pickford any differently from anybody else’s sandwich. So, you know, it needs to disappear from the game, but that’s up to the game, ultimately, to do whatever’s necessary to stop it. Jordan Pickford. 

Andy: I think Lindstrom’s yellow card was for time wasted as well at a free kick. 

Paul: Yes, it was. I suppose the most ridiculous yellow card was Ndiaye’s for excessive celebrations after the goal. 

Andy: is coming. 

George: That made me laugh, that. 

Andy: I did. 

George: That’s probably what we got the card for. Have you been making people laugh? 

Andy: You’re not here to make people laugh. No, that’s all. 

Paul: No. All right, should we leave it there? Yeah. Okay.

 Thanks, guys.And don’t worry about Everton. Lovely, lovely end to a really good footballing weekend for everything. So thank you both. And thank you to everybody for listening. And we will speak to you very soon. Goodbye.